Opinion - The 6.5 Diesel Suburban is the greatest vehicle ever made. Discuss.

[bobbiemartin]

First, this is all in good fun. I do realize that as a people hauler, the Mini doesn't compare to a Suburban, but that wasn't one of the OP's listed comparison criteria. However, I think a Land Rover (a real Land Rover, not those pantywaist things they sell today) would. They could carry up to 12 people and Diesel engines were an option. Now those were real versatile and capable vehicles that were made to operate in the worst of conditions.

I'm with you on finding something to compare to a Diesel Sub today - there really isn't anything. But, I read where only 5% of Subs were Diesels, so from a sales point, they really didn't make a lot of sense for a company like GM.

I've ridden in a Mini from Germany to England with two other adults. Not quite like a cross USA trip, but its not that bad. As far as the ride compared to a Lexus, well I don't know. Is a Lexus a "regular sedan"? The Lexus certainly would be quieter and has a longer wheelbase. I will say they certainly don't have the road holding or steering response of a Mini, but few cars do. There are not many short cars even today that can match the Mini. Most have struts and I prefer the unequal length control arms (like a Sub!) of the Mini. Compared to contemporary "regular" cars, the Mini did very well. And I'll further say that there are very few pickup trucks that will out handle a Mini pickup!

If you get a chance, drive a Mini. I guarantee you will come back with a smile, even in a Mini 1000. Find a good running Cooper S and you may not bring it back! They will fit in places you never dreamed a car would. The road holding is nothing short of phenomenal. And there is a lot more room inside than you would think.

A fun debate. For my purposes, I think the 'burb is hard to beat. I would be loath to replace it with a Mini (although I love Minis).

You don't replace it, you own both!

 

[guybb3]

I've owned a Diesel Suburban since 1995 and a 6.2 Diesel Suburban for 4 years before that, so I would say that, yes a Diesel Sub is a great vehicle. But not the greatest vehicle ever made. IMO, that title goes to the British Mini. Now I'm talking the real Mini here, not the one they make today.

While it does lack the towing and passenger capacity of a Suburban, it was never designed for that. That is why they made Land Rovers. Over 5 million Minis were produced for over 40 years in numerous configurations. It was produced in many plants all over the globe and sold all over the world. Virtually every major car producer on the planet has - and still does - copied the Mini.

Functionality - The Mini was made in sedan, pickup, van, wagon, performance sedan, convertible sedans, upmarket sedan and utility configurations, just to name a few. In the various sedan configurations it could carry 4 adults and a surprising amount of cargo. The wagons had even more cargo capacity, while still carrying 4 adults. The vans and pickups were used in all kinds of commercial applications. Want performance? How about world beating performance? The Mini Cooper S beat all comers in International Rallyes. That is outright wins, not class wins. They were and still are very successful in road racing against more powerful cars. The upmarket Riley Elf's and Wolsley Hornets had wool carpets, leather interiors and even larger boots (trunks). The Mini Moke offered off road capabilities in a Jeep like body configuration. And we haven't even got into the custom coachbuilt or modified Minis, much less the Mini based kit cars!

Power - The Mini was offered in several engine sizes, from 850cc up to 1275cc. While that may not sound like a lot, in a 1500 pound car, it offered plenty of performance. The factory produced single and twin carburetors and on the later ones, EFI. If you wanted to go faster, there are dozens of companies dedicated to improving Mini performance. If you still want more power, there is a burgeoning industry selling Honda Vtec engine conversion kits. I have seen a kit to install a 400HP Vtec engine using a 4WD Honda parts that fits in a Mini. A 4WD sub 2000 pound car with 400 HP is more than enough for most!

Comfort - I suppose comfort is somewhat subjective, but the Mini set the standard for comfort in small cars. With its advanced 4 wheel independent suspension, its more comfortable than most think. As mentioned, there were Minis made with wool carpets, leather seats and wood dashes. Air conditioning was available in some markets. Automatic transmissions (4 speed automatics at that, long before GM had one) were available almost from its introduction. The Mini British Open had a power sunroof. The aftermarket supplied most any comfort accessory you may want, such as power windows, etc.

Fueling options. I'm going to say this is a wash and could really apply to most any vehicle. Stock Minis are pretty much limited to gasoline, but since you are allowing mods in the Sub, diesel Minis are not out of the question. I have seen 3 cylinder Daihatsu diesel engine swaps in a Mini. Plus, BMC made diesel tractors in the 60's. While I have never seen one, its possible you may be able to convert an A Series engine to diesel. So any fuel you could use in a Suburban, could be used in a Mini.

In the late 1990's there was a worldwide committee to evaluate over 700 cars to find the "Car of the Century" When all the votes were in, the winner was the Ford Model T. Second place was the Mini. The Model T cannot be discounted as it allowed the common man to own a car. The Mini was really the first modern car. It showed the world that a well packaged car could offer economy, performance and handling, while selling for a very modest price. It offered reasonable comfort and a roomy interior in a very small package. I think the Cooper S was the first real performance sedan available to the masses. I just don't see how any vehicle (Suburbans included) can match the Mini in innovation or versatility.

Bobbie, I think you're a cool guy but I would run that toy over with my motorcycle!

 

[Woody35]

if the economy recovers in a few years and epa hasnt outlawed diesel vehicles by then i bet we might see a few more diesel suvs

 

[Detroit Dan]

OMG all I can think about is Mr. Bean. He is hilarious. Minis are cute, and I'm sure they have their place in the world (like another country), but they have no place in this thread. I so despise little itty bitty cutesy vehicles. My daily driver for ten years has been a 4.5 ton six wheeled lifted monstrosity. The ONLY thing a mini can possibly do better is fuel economy. And if I cared about fuel economy I wouldn't own two 6 wheeled 4wd one tons, a 4wd Jeep and a 4wd Avalanche. Fuel economy is for sissies. And I am pretty sure I couldn't fit inside a Mini unless I were to go on a diet and geld myself. The gelding part has to be important too, because I wouldnt drive a mini even wearing a disguise.

Nor would I drive a mini van or a minivan.

No I am not compensating for anything, I got ba**s that clank.

And please don't get me started on Smartcars. Everytime I see one I want to kick it over onto it's side.

 

[buddy]

Or how about JASON BOURNE! instead of Mr Bean

Mini's are cool, but not as versatile as the 6.5 sub.

 

[Brooklyn Tow]

The Italian Job.

 

[Woody35]

the second version was better imho

 

[buddy]

The Italian Job.

Same actor different year minis. Bourne Identity they drive a similar mini as Bobby posted a pic of.

 

[Woody35]

both really good movies

 

[GM Guy]

traffic collision: Slow speed in the city, mini wouldnt be too bad. but out on the interstate i want to be surrounded by a few tons of american steel!

In all reality, I do want a VW Jetta for day to day errand running, to and from work. but for long roadtripping, a 2wd diesel sub or a CCLB 6.5L 5sp 2wd are my calling!

oh, and btw, the 96 just pulled off 18 mpg towing a 4K lb offset disk for half of the trip, and jumping a dead tractor for 5-10 minutes, and a few stops here and there. Basically, NOT an all highway empty run. Oh and did i mention, the turbo is still offline? (think it is vac pump) 18 mpg, I'll say that was a pretty good run! (got 20 mpg a day ago, but it was mostly empty)

yes a 5.9L Cummins in a dodge will do that, but a far higher investment cost. (about 2-3x as much as a comperable 6.5L)

the ol 6.5L is pretty versatile, IMHO.

 

[Dave01]

In all reality, I do want a VW Jetta for day to day errand running, to and from work.

I have temporary use of a '98 VW Jetta TDI 4 door 5 speed. The car seems tiny but is fun to drive, has plenty of pep with the 5 speed, and day after day the fuel gauge barely moves. I don't think I'll put enough miles on to do a good check, but I have to be getting over 40 mpg. These little diesel engines are really impressive.

 

[buddy]

Even Cody had reported 30mpg in his 6.5 diesel camaro. We just need to put the 6.5 in all our favorite 305/350 gasser vehicles.

 

[Acesneights1]

):h

OMG all I can think about is Mr. Bean. He is hilarious. Minis are cute, and I'm sure they have their place in the world (like another country), but they have no place in this thread. I so despise little itty bitty cutesy vehicles. My daily driver for ten years has been a 4.5 ton six wheeled lifted monstrosity. The ONLY thing a mini can possibly do better is fuel economy. And if I cared about fuel economy I wouldn't own two 6 wheeled 4wd one tons, a 4wd Jeep and a 4wd Avalanche. Fuel economy is for sissies. And I am pretty sure I couldn't fit inside a Mini unless I were to go on a diet and geld myself. The gelding part has to be important too, because I wouldnt drive a mini even wearing a disguise.

Nor would I drive a mini van or a minivan.

No I am not compensating for anything, I got ba**s that clank.

And please don't get me started on Smartcars. Everytime I see one I want to kick it over onto it's side.

):h
Same hear. I WILL NEVER drive a mini van or a station wagon.

 

[Acesneights1]

I really like Jeep Liberty Diesels. There are enough aftermarket soltuins to the problems they were plagued with. Do some fixes and it is a DAMN nice rig...GMCTD where are you ???

 

[Dave01]

I've looked into buying a Jeep Liberty, I agree its a nice package, would fit my needs better than a little Jetta. I believe the only big issue was the transmission, not sure if there is something else major that needs to be addressed. But, when I looked at used ones it seemed (surprisingly!) that they were holding their value, were still 15 grand for low/medium miles ones in decent shape. This was over a year ago so maybe they've come down since then.

 

[dangerousdave]

We're on our 3rd Burb, and we love them. We'd still have the '96 if wifey hadn't wrecked it; really hard to do, but she can do almost anything...
Back on track; our local Chevy dealers have a waiting list for used diesel Burbs that MIGHT come in on trade. I love to fiddle with stuff, and actually prefer the '94 to the '96 mechanically, although the interior and ride were better on the '96. The suburban is the longest running production vehicle in history, and its gotten better over the years (anybody remember the 3 doors?)

 

[Odlaw]

I don't have one. I want one,,, I want this one!!! http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2005...ewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item2a05eda88a

Or at least a 95 burb, as it's OBD1 and my goodies will transfer over, plus the newer interior. A southern unit with a bad engine and low miles would be SWEET, but not as sweet as the ebay unit!


Don't eat too many bunnypoops today!

it has a salvaged title. what does that mean in your state?

Florida used to let people buy salvaged titles and rebuild em. Not any more....

 

[buddy]

I really like Jeep Liberty Diesels. There are enough aftermarket soltuins to the problems they were plagued with. Do some fixes and it is a DAMN nice rig...GMCTD where are you ???

That is a very stout vehicle with a good amount of torque. It was built to crawl over boulders and has a very decent tow rating. Its heavier than most little SUVs though because of the heavy duty frame and suspension though.

I looked at them for my girlfriend but she got the Hybrid Escape.

 

[GM Guy]

traffic collision: Slow speed in the city, mini wouldnt be too bad. but out on the interstate i want to be surrounded by a few tons of american steel!

In all reality, I do want a VW Jetta for day to day errand running, to and from work. but for long roadtripping, a 2wd diesel sub or a CCLB 6.5L 5sp 2wd are my calling!

oh, and btw, the 96 just pulled off 18 mpg towing a 4K lb offset disk for half of the trip, and jumping a dead tractor for 5-10 minutes, and a few stops here and there. Basically, NOT an all highway empty run. Oh and did i mention, the turbo is still offline? (think it is vac pump) 18 mpg, I'll say that was a pretty good run! (got 20 mpg a day ago, but it was mostly empty)

yes a 5.9L Cummins in a dodge will do that, but a far higher investment cost. (about 2-3x as much as a comperable 6.5L)

the ol 6.5L is pretty versatile, IMHO.

EDIT: I never specified, the Jetta has to be a TDI manual trans. !

 

[bobbiemartin]

The suburban is the longest running production vehicle in history, and its gotten better over the years (anybody remember the 3 doors?)

Sorry, I think that is a bit of a stretch. It may be the longest running nameplate in automotive history (although were they made continuously, even during WWII?) but the vehicle changed pretty dramatically over the years. I think the VW Beetle is by far the longest running vehicle.