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No Start Issue - Heat Soak Issue?

ak diesel driver said:
acts like your losing prime.
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Hmmm... I'm not knowledgeable enough on these to say yes or no to that idea but answer me this... Why only after the engine has hot soaked for 30 minutes, and only until it cools down a bit more? I'm willing to consider the possibility, but I need it to make sense in my mind somehow too, and with fuel spurting from the air bleeder I really don't understand how it could be losing prime. Now, if it were a leaky fuel line, yeah I could see that, but then it would do it all the time, not just under those specific circumstances. Help me understand better your idea and I'll probably give it a try, but right now it's a lot of work to get to the IP and I don't see a logical reason why it would be losing prime.

Remember, this is a cab & chassis, so to get to the IP for anything the a/c compressor pretty much has to come off. At least it does to get my big mitts in there.
 
since this is an internet guessing game my guess is that fuel is draing/bleeding off somehow hence the long crank time.underhood temps would make the fuel really thin and easier to bleed off. FWIW I had the same issue awhile back and it went away on it's own so who knows.
 
Sorry, this isn't a "game" for me. This truck is my daily driver and a valuable piece of equipment to my state, county and community. This is the issue I'm having with the truck, one that I'm having no success resolving on my own, so I turned to the members here for advice and suggestions. I'm willing to consider any/all advice or suggestions quite seriously, and make whatever tests I can to provide more information about the problem but I'm also trying to learn here as I go along, hence my wanting to fully understand the "why" of suggestions. If you feel that this somehow makes this a "internet guessing game" well, that's your prerogative to feel that way, but it sure isn't how it's intended.
 
as the checklist stated we can't see hear or touch your truck and rely solely on the info you give hence the guessing game. not intended to offend
 
ak diesel driver said:
as the checklist stated we can't see hear or touch your truck and rely solely on the info you give hence the guessing game. not intended to offend
Click to expand...

Understood. One of the hazards of a text medium is that sometimes things come across a little different to someone else than you intend them to. :)
 
Burning oil said:
Its your IP or PMD. IMO.
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I'm inclined to agree, but which? The PMD is less than a year old and cooling it with water had no effect, and this is the third IP on this truck. The original was replaced at 22,400 and the replacement was replaced at 68,721 just a month before I purchased the truck. That third IP has almost exactly 30,000 miles on it. The two IP's were done by the dealer under warranty. Frankly, if this particular engine is going to eat IP's every 30-40k I can't afford it.

Now, the PMD did fail, as typical, right at 74,000 which indicates to me that the original PMD was reused each time the IP was replaced. Makes me wonder what else was reused... like the fuel shutoff solenoid perhaps?

I'm going to try to replicate the failure today when it gets a bit hotter out. If it doesn't happen then it might have been a battery issue all along. If it does happen I'll be trying to pull some lines to see where the fuel is, but I'll also feel that solenoid while the key gets turned to see if I feel it click.
 
Truck is sitting idling in the driveway with the A/C on max and blower to medium. Started right up when I went out, no problems. Gonna let it idle for about 15-20 minutes to get good and warm, then shut down, wait 15-20 and see if it starts. Outside temp is currently 100* with no breeze and it's sitting in full sun.
 
Okay, let it run for 30 minutes and it was @ 195* when I shut it down. Waited 30 minutes, turned on the key, all normal lights came on, cranked it and it started in a split second, no problems, engine temp @ 180*

I'm going to try it again later and see what happens.
 
Bernie
My 97 has started developing the same hard start symptoms this last week when the temperature has been 100 plus outside. Driving it with the A/C on running errands and then letting it sit for 30-45 minutes, it'll crank but not catch. The last was yesterday, 105 sitting in full sun and this time I was at an appointment for 2 hours. It still didn't want to catch right off. My PMD is a Heath unit mounted on the skid plate outside of the engine compartment. I've been thinking it's heat soak (or at least hoping it is) so I'll be interested to see what you find....
 
You really need a spare PMD anyway. I would get one and try it out then if it turns out to be the IP put it on the new IP. Any members close to you? maybe try their PMD for a day and see?
 
Burning oil said:
You really need a spare PMD anyway. I would get one and try it out then if it turns out to be the IP put it on the new IP. Any members close to you? maybe try their PMD for a day and see?
Click to expand...

Nobody close enough that I know of, and the household finances won't support buying one right now. And, if it does turn out to be the IP... whelp, the truck will be up for sale and I'll be looking for something else, because that will be four IP's in less than 100,000 miles, and I can't afford that.
 
Just went out and tried it again and again, engine temp was @ 180* and it started right up, no problems. Then, just for s**ts & giggles I decided to check the torque on the bolts holding the PMD to the heat sink. Within spec, but I burnt holy hell out of my hand on that sucker. Icing it now (the hand, not the PMD).
 
PO, please don't take this the wrong way,
but unless you swap the OEM IP return line for a clear tube and observe if any air might be present,(engine shut down [fuel drain back] or running[bubbles passing trough]) and have a fuel pressure gauge to monitor pressure permanently installed you are completely groping in the dark about your fuel supply being optimum.

A fuel supply without adequate pressure and/or mixed with air is the leading cause of IP( not enough lubrication/cooling) and PMD(if IP mounted,...not enough cooling) failure.
 
bison said:
PO, please don't take this the wrong way,
but unless you swap the OEM IP return line for a clear tube and observe if any air might be present,(engine shut down [fuel drain back] or running[bubbles passing trough]) and have a fuel pressure gauge to monitor pressure permanently installed you are completely groping in the dark about your fuel supply being optimum.

A fuel supply without adequate pressure and/or mixed with air is the leading cause of IP( not enough lubrication/cooling) and PMD(if IP mounted,...not enough cooling) failure.
Click to expand...

Whelp, guess I'm screwed then. I can't afford to install a gauge right now, and while I have the clear line it's going to require removing the a/c compressor to get to the fitting, then reinstalling the compressor to run it and see if there's air, then do it all over again to take the clear line back out again because the clear line is not rated as fuel line and I don't trust it at those temps under the hood for more than a little testing.

Thank you all for your help. Anyone want to buy the truck? $7,500, minus the radios and warning lights.
 
Get your clear line from a "small engine shop" the stuff they put on chainsaws..ect it will hold up and don't have to remove it later.
IMO though I don't think air in the line is the issue as you are have hot start problems, usualy the system is primed up good then. Air tends to seep in after it been sitting.
 
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