New to the 6.5 TD HELP

[Nick 6.5]

Hey guys how u doin, im a new owner to the diesel world. i do know some things about diesels but not everything so im comin to the experts for help,

So i just picked up my bone stock 96 silverado 2500HD extended cab short bed for 600$ with 315k on the odometer and still kikin! the body is in great shape minus 1 dent in the cab. but anyway back to the specifics! Ive been reading ALOT about the 6.5 since i got the truck. im planning on modding it but have heard from almost every mechanic that if i mod it DO NOT mod it to smoke. That is what im currious about. Is it the EGT's that gets too hot and the engine cant handle so it begins to melt/Crack? or is there another reason not to make it smoke or is that just a myth?
My second questions are What are the best/First things to do? Theres the obvious answers like PMD relocation kit cold air intake and Exhaust And other guages along withe other gimes but im talking more mechanical? I do plan on towing quite often. I had a 94 crew cab long bed dually that i towed with but really wanted the diesel version (couldnt find 1) so i got this. My average payload is around 2000-7000LBS (cars on trailers). i dont want to mod to the max just want more power and MPG thats still safe and reliable on this ol 6.5! I have read Alot of threads on here and u guys are the Apple geniusses of the truck world! Any input would be greatly appreciated!:hihi:

 

[625fireman]

Welcome to TTS.
Smokin a diesel does nobody any good, well except the parts counter and big oil companies.
1. waste of money black smoke means unburnt fuel is going out you exhaust.
2 This is what has given diesels a bad rap here in the states.
3. yes higher EGTS cracked pistons, cracked blocks, overheated engines, burnt out turbos, coked up oil, etc

There are plenty of mods to get more power from a 6.5 it just depends on how fat your walet is!!!
Head studs
New injectors
Better turbo
Open exhaust
tune
timing adjustment
gauges
etc.
There are alot of opinions on here with what works the best. Most are us very close on what to do with slight veriance on names on the parts. Most have had good luck what they have done, some have not.
Personaly on my truck 94 reg cab 4x4 dually cab and chassis flatbed
new injectors
2.5 crossover
3 downpipe into 4" pipe thru twin 4" stacks
trubo master
boost gauge
modified stock air intake
1.94 timing
With this setup I have towed 12,000 (not regular but have done it) plowed with a 9.6' plow with it rolling over the top, get 18 mpg avg. Rolling on 255/85 16 MT's.
My to do list:
lift pump FRB 10
FTB mod
ATT turbo
EGT gauge
........

BODY WORK!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Nick 6.5]

Personally i dont care about smoke i think its stupid and annoying. I was just asking about smoke becasue i know with some mods it tends to smoke. or at least thats just what ive seen from the guys in my city. Is there any specific brands or size turbos i should be looking at? i have a lil money to work with but am by no means rich. rebuilt Bosch injectors? diamond eye exhaust and heath tune? sorry about all the questionsjust dont wanna shoot myself in the foot and have to go redo everything again. thanks for your input!

 

[ak diesel driver]

most bang for the buck is a 4" exhaust, walbro or better LP, ATT (for towing) and hopefully soon there will be an OBD2 tune for the ATT from KOJO I believe

 

[handcannon]

For your exhaust get a Diamond Eye system. Best bang for the buck. You'll need to do a bit of searching as I don't remember where the most recent best buy was located, but it will definitely be less than $300. They have a 3" down pipe which then transitions to 4" to the back, and can be installed either with, or without a muffler.

I personally am not totally thrilled with the muffler in the DE kit as the system is too loud for me, but many on here like the sound.

Don

 

[WarWagon]

After un-needed heartburn over a specific EGT number I more or less ignore it. ECT is a big number to watch and sweat when it reaches 210...

EGT is just one factor that tells you engine load and isn't going to ruin the engine by itself. It just means the engine is loaded hard. At 1550 EGT, sustained, the turbo blanket is suffering some. Nothing else that I have found. This is assuming you are not running a 20 year old cooling fan clutch, updated the cooling system with a HO water pump, better fan, etc, have decent injectors and are not running too much advance. I am sure a few other factors determine when an engine melts down under heavy load. After a baseline EGT for your engine is known you may be able to use it to notice when something is wrong like a plugged air filter.

A failed injector will take out your engine without even a spike in EGT.

X2 on the rest of what 625fireman posted.

 

[Nick 6.5]

Thanks for the help i really appreciate it! Im going to start on the cooling system first and get that squared away first before performance mods. I didnt realize the cooling system was that troublesome, i knew they had some issues but not to an extreme extent. Another question, how does a bad injector sieze and entire engine? Is it that the fuel helps cool the piston so wen it fails it overheats it?

 

[tanman_2006]

A bad injector can blow a hole straight through a piston.

Sent from my Milestone X2 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Missy Good Wench]

Don't mean to disagree, buttttttttttttttttt EGT is a biggy on these engines. USE an EGT gauge and keep the temps right around 1000F at the outlet of the LH manifold under hard pulls.

1200F for a very short time is not terrible, but sustained running above 1100f is gonna take its toll.

Just Missy's 2 cents worth :hello:

Missy

 

[JayTheCPA]

. . . how does a bad injector sieze and entire engine?

Good injectors atomize fuel (turn it into a mist) so that it will explode within a short period (time), bad injectors allow larger droplets which burn longer than the engine wants / needs and may cause detonation (explosion at the wrong point / time) as well as other unwanted factors.

Inside pretty much any ICE: explode = good; burn = bad.

 

[Nick 6.5]

ok so under a heavy load 1000 is a decent temp and 1100 is pushing it. What about day to day driving in hot wheather will the egt temps rise tremendously?or will they tend to be lower because of no load. my 3500 crew cab had a 454 ( i know its not a diesel) and wen i was towing a heavy load i could expect the engine temp to rise 15-30 degrees on a hot day if not more. will it be similiar results? i would just like to know the facts before i hook up and start towing. The last thing i think any of us want if for our rigs to have a catastrophic failure 300 miles from home in the desert ( i live in californa)

 

[Jamin6.5]

On my truck with a 13000 lbs trailer cruising at 65 my engine temp was at 195 to 200. This was with ac on and outside temperature was upper 90s. The egts were around 7-800 and going over mountain passes would hit 1150 before I backed off. I have a remote trans cooler so the trans never got over 190.

 

[WarWagon]

Don't mean to disagree, buttttttttttttttttt EGT is a biggy on these engines. USE an EGT gauge and keep the temps right around 1000F at the outlet of the LH manifold under hard pulls.

1200F for a very short time is not terrible, but sustained running above 1100f is gonna take its toll.

Just Missy's 2 cents worth :hello:

Missy

Take it's toll on WHAT exactly? :skep: And are you sure it was due solely to EGT? I won't disagree on it's affect on fuel economy, but, when you need power economy can suffer.

I have had to push the EGT's into zones that make people uncomfortable to get the trailer up the mountain grades. That is sustained WOT high EGT exceeding 1300. (That would be a dark red glow from the manifolds and turbo.) Yeah it scorched the paint under the cab where the downpipe passes by it on both sides of the floorpan. After swapping turbo's out to the ATT I scorched the turbo blanket sustaining 1550 EGT (A cherry red glow) pulling a trailer while Buddy and I were testing tunes.

The 1550 EGT was sustained with a 6.2 having uncoated pistons. I don't like going that high, but, it didn't hurt anything. I have 25K on that engine since and it's EGT is usually running high. I have oil samples from running hard and the conventional oil is unharmed in the 2500 mile change interval. (Even pushed that to 3000 miles to make a week of hauling on an oil change.)

Altitude also affects EGT. Tends to go higher EGT with higher altitude.

This said the only thing I see EGT as a danger to is the exhaust wheel in the turbo and I haven't reached that temp. Not for a lack of trying anyway.

The first engine I blew everyone suggested high EGT until I looked over the cooling system with a bad 15 year old fan clutch and defective new radiator cap that let things get hot and then suddenly let pressure off shock cooling a hot block. The scuffing caused the engine to quit running enough to loose oil pressure with steam everywhere and a check gauges light. It continued to run after the event without as much as hitting the starter. It made 7000 miles before complete failure when the cracked piston burned through. Yes, I was pushing the engine hard, but, the failure was not repeated even with high ECT on the next engine after cooling system improvements. Even with the replacement engine being a lesser heat tolerant 6.2 over the coated piston 6.5. edit at WW request
So I call B.S. on EGT being set at some arbitrary low number without proof of what component it will harm going higher. I mean this with the utmost respect, but, I am sick of people giving me and others unnecessary heartburn over something that does not appear to apply to the 6.2 or 6.5 engine. Yeah, get to the first real grade with a trailer with a 1/4 turn of the fuel screw and a turbomaster set to 14 PSI. Choosing between making it up the hill at 43 MPH or not at all the EGT myth went out the window then and there.

Here is the gotcha. If you advance the timing measured EGT goes down. If the cooling system isn't up to the job you can have a failure. So someone running next to me with lower EGT could melt their engine down, but, it would be due to over advanced timing...

 

[Burning oil]

Im bias but heres my list in order of how I would approach a 6.5 as far as bang for the buck.

$145. Walbro FRC10 (for DS4 trucks) Engine runs so much better with propper fuel PSI. Stock LP never even put out what Stanadyne calls for anyway, so when IP see's 9-10 psi the engine is happy.
$299. 4" Diamond Eye exhaust. Pays for itself quickly in MPG gains
$?? used. K47 air box with a dry filter element.
$801. Turbo (ATT) again pays for itself in MPG gains, most report 3MPG increase (Have heard of 5 MPG!!).
$ ?? Cooling system upgrade= WP, HD clutch and Dmax fan.

So somewhere around $1500-2000 gets a solid start. After these mods the sky is the limit

 

[Nick 6.5]

My truck is a late model 96 so it came with the HO water pump and dual thermostat crossover i got lucky. The DE exhaust is in the mail already. And a tune is next. I was thinking im ganna build a new engine and start fresh so i dont gatta worry about any problems down the road. Whats every1s take on a "performance" cam for the 6.5? Im ganna upgrade to the ATT turbo with the rebuild so i thought maybe it would go hand an hand. Anybody know of any dyno stats? Pros cons personal opinion?

 

[DTMAbfall]

New to me used vehicles get new brakes, fluids, and common fail components replaced. Have heard before: Speed is optional, stopping is mandatory.
safety, long term dependability, improve capability.

 

[jeffrey98335]

Take it's toll on WHAT exactly? :skep: And are you sure it was due solely to EGT? I won't disagree on it's affect on fuel economy, but, when you need power economy can suffer.

I have had to push the EGT's into zones that make people uncomfortable to get the trailer up the mountain grades. That is sustained WOT high EGT exceeding 1300. (That would be a dark red glow from the manifolds and turbo.) Yeah it scorched the paint under the cab where the downpipe passes by it on both sides of the floorpan. After swapping turbo's out to the ATT I scorched the turbo blanket sustaining 1550 EGT (A cherry red glow) pulling a trailer while Buddy and I were testing tunes.

The 1550 EGT was sustained with a 6.2 having uncoated pistons. I don't like going that high, but, it didn't hurt anything. I have 25K on that engine since and it's EGT is usually running high. I have oil samples from running hard and the conventional oil is unharmed in the 2500 mile change interval. (Even pushed that to 3000 miles to make a week of hauling on an oil change.)

Altitude also affects EGT. Tends to go higher EGT with higher altitude.

This said the only thing I see EGT as a danger to is the exhaust wheel in the turbo and I haven't reached that temp. Not for a lack of trying anyway.

The first engine I blew everyone suggested high EGT until I looked over the cooling system with a bad 15 year old fan clutch and defective new radiator cap that let things get hot and then suddenly let pressure off shock cooling a hot block. The scuffing caused the engine to quit running enough to loose oil pressure with steam everywhere and a check gauges light. It continued to run after the event without as much as hitting the starter. It made 7000 miles before complete failure when the cracked piston burned through. Yes, I was pushing the engine hard, but, the failure was not repeated even with high ECT on the next engine after cooling system improvements. Even with the replacement engine being a lesser heat tolerant 6.2 over the coated piston 6.5. edit at WW request
So I call B.S. on EGT being set at some arbitrary low number without proof of what component it will harm going higher. I mean this with the utmost respect, but, I am sick of people giving me and others unnecessary heartburn over something that does not appear to apply to the 6.2 or 6.5 engine. Yeah, get to the first real grade with a trailer with a 1/4 turn of the fuel screw and a turbomaster set to 14 PSI. Choosing between making it up the hill at 43 MPH or not at all the EGT myth went out the window then and there.

Here is the gotcha. If you advance the timing measured EGT goes down. If the cooling system isn't up to the job you can have a failure. So someone running next to me with lower EGT could melt their engine down, but, it would be due to over advanced timing...

I have been on this site for some time, and seen all of War Wagons contributions to the group. War Wagon not only KNOW the 6.5 INSIDE AND OUT, he uses it daily, and runs them hard. :thumbsup: He is here to share his experiences so we dont have to learn from our own expensive mistakes, and I applaud him for doing so. I wish others could see all he has to offer, but I'm not here to turn this into a 'bash' :mad2:

WW I wish you had tracked all of the miles the 6.5/6.2 hybrids have/had served you over the years. It would be mind blowing the miles you have put down, to say the least.

From one member to another, THANK YOU :thumbsup: I really appreciate everything that I have learned from you, and I wanted to take a moment to say so......

 

[jeffrey98335]

Sorry to derail your Post - Back on target -

I would start with the cooling system- HO Waterpump, Dual Thermostat Housing, Durmax HD Clutch, and Fan. After that is done, then I would go to the exhaust, then fuel system upgrades, in that order.

 

[JiFaire]

Cooling system: Clean it. No, I mean REALLY clean it.

- Pull the grill.
- Drain the rad
- remove the fan and clutch
- remove the hoses
- pull the rad - remove the felt blanket between the AC condenser and the rad. Give it to your neighbor as a souvenir.
- Set the rad face-down on a few sawhorses (Marty has a schematic, if you need to build some!), spray with scrubbing bubbles, let soak
- wash with garden hose and spray attachment. Do NOT use a pressure washer!
- Repeat a few times until you are SURE all the little grit, dirt, bugs, slow hitchikers, Priuses, etc are out of the fins and the body.

I can't stress this enough. Your rad can never be too clean. Ever.

- Reassemble until you are ready to put the fan clutch back on.

If it's over 5 yrs old, this is the time to replace it. Use a severe-duty or Hayden clutch. You don't need one calibrated to engage early but you do need one that transfers torque better than stock.

Air IN: Check your filter, avoid K&N or Cone filters.

Fuel IN: Diesels need a steady supply of fuel - treat with 1/2 qt of ND30 oil every fill-up for lubrication.

- LP: Put a fuel pressure gauge in the system on the water drain and go for a drive. You should ALWAYS have positive pressure!
- PMD: if it is still on the IP, start thinking about carrying a spare on a heatsink and an extension cable.
- Injectors: If you aren't sure they've been done in the last 100K miles, pull a few out and have them examined and tested.
- Filters: Fuel Filter and last-ditch filter in IP. Examine them, Change if necessary.

Exhaust out: Nothin says lovin like a free-flowing exhaust. Mandrel-bent downpipe is critical, 4" everything else. 2.5" on the crossover. Converter or soot trap is optional, in most cases.

Optional: 8-track deck, BTO, Doobies, and April Wine tapes. Matchbook to stop them from warbling. If you have to ask, skip this step and use the radio instead.

 

[Nick 6.5]

I have the updated cooling system already ho water pupm and dual thermostat crossover, but i will take ur advice and the the S**T out of it just be sure. i have the Diamond Eye kit already wth mandrel bent 2.5 crossover. im thinking of doing the feel the beast mod and ATT turbo along with walbro frc10. any input on that?