• Welcome to The Truck Stop! We see you haven't REGISTERED yet.

    Your truck knowledge is missing!
    • Registration is FREE , all we need is your birthday and email. (We don't share ANY data with ANYONE)
    • We have tons of knowledge here for your diesel truck!
    • Post your own topics and reply to existing threads to help others out!
    • NO ADS! The site is fully functional and ad free!
    CLICK HERE TO REGISTER!

    Problems registering? Click here to contact us!

    Already registered, but need a PASSWORD RESET? CLICK HERE TO RESET YOUR PASSWORD!

New and random stalling issue

Here is a cheap NAPA FP mechanical gauge.
Be okay to run for a while as a test unit but I would still be leary of running one permanently inside the cabin.

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BK_7012005

And if You dont have NAPA in Canada here is a JEGS option.



I have a Mr Gasket version if the JEGS unit that I run for a couple of years. I was just leary of the plasticated pressure tube cracking or breaking.
Twice I have had plasticated water line to my fridge break and destroyed the laminate flooring. First time I had enough spare flooring to fix the damage.
Used what was suppose to be a tougher line the second time. It wasnt. Ruined flooring again so had to go with some kind of a hardy backer and a genuine tile.
Third time installed black plastic air brake line but never turned back on the water.
 
Last edited:
revyd said:
Honestly for that price I ‘should’ be able to find something permanent for not much more. In theory😀
Click to expand...
Do you have the links for the fuel pressure gauge T and snubbed?

Search fuel pressure gauge here on the site.

I haven't seen a definitive fuel pressure gauge posted yet. Ideally, it would be mabe -10 to 25 psi. Analog and digital.

I don't know that such a critter exists
 
dbrannon79 said:
Welcome to the forum @revyd.

start out with some basic diagnostics before firing the parts cannon too much.

remove the 1/4" hose from the IP return line and replace it with a clear hose from the hardware store. the hose is about 6" in length and shaped like an upside down U from the top front of the IP to a small steel line behind the timing cover. this will allow you to physically see if there is any air intrusion in the fuel system. Don't worry about the clear hose being fuel resistant, there is no pressure on this hose and several of us run this hardware store hose for several years before needing to replace it.

next get a fuel pressure reading after the fuel filter, best to test at the IP inlet. Harbor Freight sells a fuel pressure test kit that includes a tee that you can temporarily plumb into the hose at the IP. the gauge should reach out to the windshield so you can pin it under the wiper blade and watch as you drive. you should see 8-10 psi with key on and maintain 6-8 running. it will dip lower under load but should never go into a vacuum. Starving the IP for fuel will kill it in a hurry.

When it stalls, does it stumble or any smoke come from the tail pipe? or does it feel like something luggs the engine down and kills it? if not fuel issue the other thing that comes to mine is if your TCC is locking up and killing the engine. this would be a wiring issue.

Start with the clear hose looking for air and check fuel pressure and report back. there are lots of us here that can help wrench on your truck and help spend you money LOL

if you can post videos linked through youtube or even photos it might help too.
Click to expand...
I'm just revisiting the fuel gauge. I'm looking at an auto meter, but should I get a 15psi or a 30psi? I don't know what the maximum pressure could be.
 
For our rigs max is 15. DS4 trucks run 8-10 normally and DB2's can take up to 12-14 iirc others can chime in on that spec but you'll never see more than 15. for the gauge max, that's strictly up to you. I like the lower psi ones as they tend to show more accurate or better numbers due to the gauge sweep. a 30 psi gauge you will one ever see the needle at about 1/4 to 1/2 of it's full sweep where a lower psi gauge will show better.

having one that also shows negative pressure like on the boost gauges is nice for diagnosing issues too. finding a fuel pressure gauge that has this is rare as hens teeth. some folks have used actual boost gauges in place for this and just removed the face and re-labeled it under the glass as fuel pressure. though you will want an isolator under the hood so fuel will never make it into the cab.
 
0-15 psi is good- but higher quality pumps can exceed that pressure so using a mechanical one to start the adjustments with that reads higher is best before installing the one that maxes at 15 so you don’t damage the new gauge by shoving say 31psi into one rated for 15. If you are running a stock Lift pump- this won’t be a problem…yet.

Ds4 ideally is 8-14 psi. Db2 ideally is 5 psi but maxes I thought at 8psi but 8.5 might be correct. (This does not include hot rod pumps- those can be reset and much higher numbers, get the info from your builder).

90% of the time when people add a gauge they next go buy a fuel pump.
If you work the engine hard enough to get less than 1psi you are doing damage at a fast rate. If you maintain around half your pressure range the additional wear is less but still occurs. Between 4-8 your loosing performance and mpg. The ip life shortens but not dramatically. When you buy a fuel gauge it tells you to buy a lift pump and saves hours of diagnostics often doing it is a couple seconds while on the road. The better lift pumps are saving you money on replacing ip. The better filtration offered and the air elimination system a couple have also extends ip and injector life. It’s up to you if the best lift pumps are worth the cost or not.

On the gauges:
Option 1.
mechanical pressure gauges are cheaper to buy the gauge itself. The problem is running a fuel line into the cabin is a good way to burn everyone to death in the event of a crash. Or ruin your interior or other electronics in the event of a simple leak. In addition to a mechanical gauge two things people frequently add is a snubber and an isolator.

A snubber is added to cheap lift pumps because the flow isn’t steady and the needle bounces so fast you can’t read it clearly and this destroys the gauge quickly. So its smart to save the gauge but is bad because the idea of the gauge is to tell you what is actually happening to the ip. If the LP goes from pulsing like a kid in a trampoline to a laser beam between mirrors- then the truck starts acting up- you don’t know why it is cutting out because your gauge lies to you now. The same occurs when using liquid filled gauges. The liquid is a snubber.

An Isolator on the other hand is used with mechanical gauges in the cab so that you have less risk of burning everyone up, and only minor risk of staining the interior. You put the isolator under the hood. Fuel goes to one side and an oil - usually mineral oil- goes in the line on the other side. The mineral oil can still leak in the interior but since it isn’t a 20 gallon supply of it- simply squirts once and then drips so you can mitigate the risk by your choosing stainless steel or similar tubing instead of the cheap plastic tube that always fails (hint hint).
But you have to have a way to fill these two lines 100% of the way and eliminate all the air. The fuel side is easy- put everything together, keep upper most part the snubber by elevation so air rises. Bleed the fitting nut like you would an injector line. Just remember this can get air back in it if you ever get air intrusion noticed by your clear return line.
The mineral oil side is more difficult. You need a T and a valve at the highest part of the line which needs to be the gauge. With an old set of cheap a/c gauges and an a/c vacuum pump you can vacuum the line and use that to suck the oil in thus eliminating all the air and filling 100%.
Another way is trying to pour or pump the oil into the line until it is 100% full, then screw the gauge on. I have heard of some crazy scenarios people invented for this task. Once in place so long as you did it perfectly you never mess with this half again. So do the math on the value of that cheap plastic hose and count on what happens when it fails because it will fail, it always does. If you make the horrible mistake of using it for the fuel side or the absolutely worst mistake of using it for fuel and running it into the cab- life will suck in the future. Only under the hood not as bad because you can usually get away from the rig while it is burning to the ground before you get physical injuries, usually.

So add up if you keep a cheap LP that you will replace mechanical gauges or need to buy a snubber and loose some of the diagnostics from rapid pulsing. Add in the metal line. NOT COPPER. Never use copper, brass, bronze, pure aluminum with bio fuels. Most aluminum composites are ok. Add the cost of the extra fittings, add the cost of the isolator and making the wife mad when she can’t find the new bottle of baby oil (mineral oil). And do not forget the aggravating part of filling it and removing the air.

Option 2. A more expensive electric gauge.
Cheap ones fail.
Auto meter USED to be good. They have went downhill on electric gauges. As Eric recently reminded me- glow shift makes a better gauge than autometer now.

Do your research and decide if you want to buy a cheap gauge 3 times or an expensive one once. Or twice. It sucks. If anyone out there has found an extensive test comparing gauges for quality and life span- I haven’t found it.
The “magazine” places won’t do that because they end up pissing off some of their customers or potential customers who buy adds from them. Same reason they don’t do honest reviews of most any products anymore. All those magazine companies went out of business before the internet was invented by Al Gore.

I truly wish I had the answer for you- “Buy brand X part xx-##” because I would buy it too right now.
My dumb as… (a kid might read this later)… my dumb SELF ran a raw fuel line into my cabin to my mechanical gauges in trucks. Ruined some interior stuff along the way. Then a friend who is a burn victim saw what I did and punched me in the mouth as hard as he could. And then said while I was confused laying on the ground “ And now I am gonna do that to your wife and kids. And I am gonna do it every hour on the hour for the rest of their lives because you are being an idiot, a cheap bastard, or both!”

Some people add a mechanical gauge and leave it under the hood. I don’t see the value. Hummers cant, but pickups can have a hood mounted mechanical gauge and because cars like GTO made it look good-thats a fun and cool (imo) option.
Just use sae30r9 hose and replace it every 5 years jic it begins to fail for reassurance the gauge is never wrong. Use a large common size gauge Because it will fail from the added vibration and weather. Cowl induction style hood with a few gauges hiding there? Sorry- my mind wanders more than my feet. Haha.
 
Will L. said:
0-15 psi is good- but higher quality pumps can exceed that pressure so using a mechanical one to start the adjustments with that reads higher is best before installing the one that maxes at 15 so you don’t damage the new gauge by shoving say 31psi into one rated for 15. If you are running a stock Lift pump- this won’t be a problem…yet.

Ds4 ideally is 8-14 psi. Db2 ideally is 5 psi but maxes I thought at 8psi but 8.5 might be correct. (This does not include hot rod pumps- those can be reset and much higher numbers, get the info from your builder).

90% of the time when people add a gauge they next go buy a fuel pump.
If you work the engine hard enough to get less than 1psi you are doing damage at a fast rate. If you maintain around half your pressure range the additional wear is less but still occurs. Between 4-8 your loosing performance and mpg. The ip life shortens but not dramatically. When you buy a fuel gauge it tells you to buy a lift pump and saves hours of diagnostics often doing it is a couple seconds while on the road. The better lift pumps are saving you money on replacing ip. The better filtration offered and the air elimination system a couple have also extends ip and injector life. It’s up to you if the best lift pumps are worth the cost or not.

On the gauges:
Option 1.
mechanical pressure gauges are cheaper to buy the gauge itself. The problem is running a fuel line into the cabin is a good way to burn everyone to death in the event of a crash. Or ruin your interior or other electronics in the event of a simple leak. In addition to a mechanical gauge two things people frequently add is a snubber and an isolator.

A snubber is added to cheap lift pumps because the flow isn’t steady and the needle bounces so fast you can’t read it clearly and this destroys the gauge quickly. So its smart to save the gauge but is bad because the idea of the gauge is to tell you what is actually happening to the ip. If the LP goes from pulsing like a kid in a trampoline to a laser beam between mirrors- then the truck starts acting up- you don’t know why it is cutting out because your gauge lies to you now. The same occurs when using liquid filled gauges. The liquid is a snubber.

An Isolator on the other hand is used with mechanical gauges in the cab so that you have less risk of burning everyone up, and only minor risk of staining the interior. You put the isolator under the hood. Fuel goes to one side and an oil - usually mineral oil- goes in the line on the other side. The mineral oil can still leak in the interior but since it isn’t a 20 gallon supply of it- simply squirts once and then drips so you can mitigate the risk by your choosing stainless steel or similar tubing instead of the cheap plastic tube that always fails (hint hint).
But you have to have a way to fill these two lines 100% of the way and eliminate all the air. The fuel side is easy- put everything together, keep upper most part the snubber by elevation so air rises. Bleed the fitting nut like you would an injector line. Just remember this can get air back in it if you ever get air intrusion noticed by your clear return line.
The mineral oil side is more difficult. You need a T and a valve at the highest part of the line which needs to be the gauge. With an old set of cheap a/c gauges and an a/c vacuum pump you can vacuum the line and use that to suck the oil in thus eliminating all the air and filling 100%.
Another way is trying to pour or pump the oil into the line until it is 100% full, then screw the gauge on. I have heard of some crazy scenarios people invented for this task. Once in place so long as you did it perfectly you never mess with this half again. So do the math on the value of that cheap plastic hose and count on what happens when it fails because it will fail, it always does. If you make the horrible mistake of using it for the fuel side or the absolutely worst mistake of using it for fuel and running it into the cab- life will suck in the future. Only under the hood not as bad because you can usually get away from the rig while it is burning to the ground before you get physical injuries, usually.

So add up if you keep a cheap LP that you will replace mechanical gauges or need to buy a snubber and loose some of the diagnostics from rapid pulsing. Add in the metal line. NOT COPPER. Never use copper, brass, bronze, pure aluminum with bio fuels. Most aluminum composites are ok. Add the cost of the extra fittings, add the cost of the isolator and making the wife mad when she can’t find the new bottle of baby oil (mineral oil). And do not forget the aggravating part of filling it and removing the air.

Option 2. A more expensive electric gauge.
Cheap ones fail.
Auto meter USED to be good. They have went downhill on electric gauges. As Eric recently reminded me- glow shift makes a better gauge than autometer now.

Do your research and decide if you want to buy a cheap gauge 3 times or an expensive one once. Or twice. It sucks. If anyone out there has found an extensive test comparing gauges for quality and life span- I haven’t found it.
The “magazine” places won’t do that because they end up pissing off some of their customers or potential customers who buy adds from them. Same reason they don’t do honest reviews of most any products anymore. All those magazine companies went out of business before the internet was invented by Al Gore.

I truly wish I had the answer for you- “Buy brand X part xx-##” because I would buy it too right now.
My dumb as… (a kid might read this later)… my dumb SELF ran a raw fuel line into my cabin to my mechanical gauges in trucks. Ruined some interior stuff along the way. Then a friend who is a burn victim saw what I did and punched me in the mouth as hard as he could. And then said while I was confused laying on the ground “ And now I am gonna do that to your wife and kids. And I am gonna do it every hour on the hour for the rest of their lives because you are being an idiot, a cheap bastard, or both!”

Some people add a mechanical gauge and leave it under the hood. I don’t see the value. Hummers cant, but pickups can have a hood mounted mechanical gauge and because cars like GTO made it look good-thats a fun and cool (imo) option.
Just use sae30r9 hose and replace it every 5 years jic it begins to fail for reassurance the gauge is never wrong. Use a large common size gauge Because it will fail from the added vibration and weather. Cowl induction style hood with a few gauges hiding there? Sorry- my mind wanders more than my feet. Haha.
Click to expand...

I can't see hood gauges being so good in the winter with a bunch of snow.

I wanna gauge that reads from minus 20 to positive 30, digital and analog.

Are there different nu.bers that would make it a more universal gauge?

It'd be a good challenge for Mod Mafia, SS diesel or somebody to come up with a kit.
I have trouble reading gauges, unless they're really big.
 
Last edited:
A good electric gauge can be bought for $200. Best ones around $300.
Most people, me included, don’t want to pay $125. The $95 units fail in a couple years.

A gauge outside is $40. Hence the thought of doing one.

None of the small suppliers will stock any because almost no one will buy them. Plus they have to mark it up to pay for their time.
 
Update!

I haven't had any random stalling since I posted. However, I did put in a clear fuel line and haven't seen any air. The big thing I did while looking for a sale on a fuel pressure gauge was buy and install the Zombie Solutions (Bruce) battery cable set. In the process, I discovered one ground on the passenger side that wasn't tightened properly. Whether that is contributing to the problem or not, I don't know, but I can tell you that the truck sure cranks and starts so much better with the new cables.
 
Will L. said:
Yup- hope that was it!
Yeah, proper size wires makes the shocktricity go gooder!
GM hires the best penny pinching crew around.

As big a difference as you see with the proper size cables now- it’s t will make that big an impression when ya jump to a power master starter down the road.
Click to expand...
I've had people argue that all the factory stuff was figured out by very intelligent engineers. And everything was just fine.

They also argued the diesel needed the restrictive exhaust on the Jeep
 
Soooo… the problem is not solved at all. Did it to me four times today. I fire the truck up without any problem then about thirty seconds later it dies. Then I have to really crank it and pump the accelerator to get it started. So one time when it happened today I had my son in law watch the fuel in the clear line. He says that right after it started the line had a ton of bubbles going through it.

It still does not happen consistently so I'm stumped.
 
were you able to get a fuel pressure reading after the fuel filter? getting air in the system, check the easy parts first. FFM seals and the o-rings on the fittings for the lift pump. most likely air is entering the system between the back of the lift pump and the tank pick-up tube. this can be anywhere and inbetween. getting any air in the lines will cause issues like this. if you don't find anything wrong with the o-rings on the lift pump, you can eliminate the line from the LP into the tank by rigging up a jerry can in the bed with a hose up to the LP. drive around for a bit and see if the problem is gone.

if this works, then it's most likely time to drop the tank and inspect everything behind the LP.
 
The air is your answer. But not knowing if it had fuel pressure when that happened means you don’t know if it was sucking air or making it in the ip.

You can have one of three things.
Sucking air from hole in the line before the lift pump.
Flap inside fuel line somewhere wether rubber in the line or obstruction in the tank.
The absolute best solution is drop the tank, replacing the lines-rear to front. Total pain but solves it for the next 25 years.

ip is sucking air or cavitation inside the pump. You replace the fuel line from the ffm to the ip with clear. Then you have to again see it when it is happening. If there is air in both clear lines then it shows the fuel lines need replaced like mentioned above. If there is no bubbles in the ffm to ip line but there is in the return line- then it is the ip and the ip has to come apart for repair or replacement.
 
The thing that puzzles me about the air is that I never have an issue after the first couple of minutes. I can drive for hours with no issue but then I stop the truck and turn it off for even a few minutes and the stalling reoccurs.
 
if there is a hose somewhere flexing or even temp changes when there is a pinhole or crack it can seal up and not be an issue until it gets tweaked in the right position or expands from warming up cause the air to get in.

I had an older honda civic back in the day that I chased a power steering leak for months. fill the fluid and it would never leak until left overnight, come outside only to find it empty and fluid all over the ground. cooler temps caused an o-ring to retract and leak, after 5 minutes of running or when it was over 60 degrees outside it would never leak. I have seen things do the exact opposite where there'd be no leaks until things warmed up. when the engine is running warm fuel is returned to the tank which also warms up the fuel coming back into the supply lines to the lift pump. as that warms up if there is a crack or pinhole on a line or hose that expands with heat can begin to leak sucking in air. it might not be enough to cause issues till you shut down the truck and all the air rises to the highest point in the fuel system creating a larger air pocket that once started again moves into the IP causing the stall issue.

on the FFM filter cap if the bleeder screw is not sealing properly or even the gasket on the cap, not enough to leak with pressure, but when parked and left sit, fuel can bleed back towards the tank creating a slight suction effect pulling the seal back slightly allowing air in while draining the filter housing. when you go to start the truck again the LP pressurizes the filter housing with the air in there. then the air is pulled into the IP stalling the engine.

There are lots of scenarios that "could" cause the interment air intrusion. that's why we're saying to check everything.
 
Last edited:
the above mentioned "suction effect" if happening can also be caused by a fuel cap that is sealed and not vented. after you've been driving for a while have you tried opening the cap on the tanks listening for a "swoosh" of air. if you have one of those locking fuel caps or even ever replaced the cap with something off the shelf at the auto parts that might not have a vent or the vent is plugged with dirt.

Just something to consider.
 
dbrannon79 said:
the above mentioned "suction effect" if happening can also be caused by a fuel cap that is sealed and not vented. after you've been driving for a while have you tried opening the cap on the tanks listening for a "swoosh" of air. if you have one of those locking fuel caps or even ever replaced the cap with something off the shelf at the auto parts that might not have a vent or the vent is plugged with dirt.

Just something to consider.
Click to expand...
A small amount of vacuum in the tank is normal.
 
revyd said:
The thing that puzzles me about the air is that I never have an issue after the first couple of minutes. I can drive for hours with no issue but then I stop the truck and turn it off for even a few minutes and the stalling reoccurs.
Click to expand...
It’s when there is enough air collected at the moment.
A small amount can mess with the optic sensor. More is simply interrupting the hydraulic pumping of the fuel, or some air getting pushed to the injectors.

Annoying as all get out. I never want to fire the parts cannon without diagnosing first. You are definitely diagnosed. You can fiddle-fart around one area or piece at a time - or turn on the radio and start cranking the parts out. Drop tank(s), ensure everything is perfect there. Replace any metal line in question. Replace all the rubber lines with sae30r9 or higher (higher is r10 / r11 but is thicker, stiffer to work, and more expensive and need better clamps). Speaking of which- best clamps you can afford. See YouTube “project farm” for which ones. New VITON orings wherever they exist. “GASOILA” for the pile threaded parts. Fuel-line.com for the clear line at the ip. You decide if you want clear between ffm and ip now our testing so far says good for 5 years but idk about extreme cold. Sae30r9 is the safe bet there long term. Do not forget the fitting into the ip itself. Clean that lil screen while it’s out and you check that sealed fitting.

Imo just do it all now, get it 100% and you are done messing with it for years. The only risky part I recommend is the tiny risk in 5 years of that clear line at the ip.
ALWAYS worth it because filter swap goofs happen.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top