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Massive steering failure... With Cognito braces

btfarm said:
From the pics I dont see any sign of it having been cracked before it broke. Usually you'll see a shiny area near an edge in that case. Strange pattern at the break like there was a flaw in the material although since it's a forging that might be normal. It's possible that it had a nick in it which caused a stress riser. Strange distortion in the stud which leads me to think about over-torque which can stress the material close to yield but usually not that far away from the stud end. Without a microstructure analysis ($$$) it's not likely you'll ever know the actual fault.
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Good to know. I am pretty curious myself, mostly because I need to prevent this from happening again... next time it might be on the highway or with a trailer or with passengers or worse.

Definitely wasn't over torque; had a torque wrench and did everything by the book.
 
Wow,,, thats crazy. I have not had a Moog shear off like that before. How long ago was these purchased from us? Also I send you back your PM.
 
good on moog.

nick, what exactly do these braces do? and do they need to come with the arms for usage. i have just replaced mine within the last 2 months and i am concerned with local availability of moog in an emergency like mikes or plowing ect.
 
They are a great upgrade to help the idler and pitman last about 3 times longer than with out. You just want to make sure you have idler and/or a pitman arm that is not showing a ton of slop/wear before adding them on. They are a brace not a fix to a sloppy joint in the socket of either arm.

Here is the link for more info on them > http://www.norcaltruck.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=2_385&products_id=242

A pic:


nctpitmanidler2vw3.jpg
 
tinypeckerwood said:
Nick,

Why not weld the brace on the arm? Looks like it would strengthen it even more.
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The pitman and idler arms are cast so welding that to the metal will not be that easy. I have a ton of trucks running larger tires and not having problems like this. Really think it's a fluke :frown5:


Hey by the way nice looking Boxer :thumbsup: We have a male thats about 9yo and I have had 2 others. Really nice dogs to have.
 
Nor-Cal Nick said:
The pitman and idler arms are cast so welding that to the metal will not be that easy. I have a ton of trucks running larger tires and not having problems like this. Really think it's a fluke :frown5:


Hey by the way nice looking Boxer :thumbsup: We have a male thats about 9yo and I have had 2 others. Really nice dogs to have.
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It does look like there is a flaw in the grain, I'm a welder, so we like to weld everything. LOL! I've even had to weld steering arms on some big truck cranes. I wasn't all that happy about it, but I got over ruled, so I put my hood down and welde her up. Thanks on the dog his name is Super Cooper. We adopted him about 5 mos ago. He's 2 years old and gets along great with our Vizsla. Its like romper room and UFC all day with these two nuts. Cooper loves to ride on the sea-doo at havasu. He like thes the water more than my hunting waterdog.
 
I had a MOOG break on half on my old 03 with Cognito Braces. I broke right in the middle of the arm. It only had 20K on it, after being the replacement for the Fabtech HD Idler/Pitman arms. The Cognito brace made it able to move back into a parking spot, but it was mangled beyond recognition.
 
tinypeckerwood said:
It does look like there is a flaw in the grain, I'm a welder, so we like to weld everything. LOL! I've even had to weld steering arms on some big truck cranes. I wasn't all that happy about it, but I got over ruled, so I put my hood down and welde her up. Thanks on the dog his name is Super Cooper. We adopted him about 5 mos ago. He's 2 years old and gets along great with our Vizsla. Its like romper room and UFC all day with these two nuts. Cooper loves to ride on the sea-doo at havasu. He like thes the water more than my hunting waterdog.
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Ha ha, yea we have done the cast to steal before and it takes alot of talent to get it to hold. I am not a welder (well, JB weld:h) but some of my top welders I have had in the shop have told me of the reasons it makes it real hard, if I am right it's the pours of the cast and you have to heat the cast side up at a different range than the steal??


2yo ... man he is hyper right now:eek:. Try 2 boxers ... yea camping was a pain with 2 and just about anything you try to do. We had a male that we picked up @ 7weeks but when he was about 2 we had to give him away to a buddy because we had my son coming and felt it would be best because they take a ton of attain and we kept our oldest because he was already calm. Our daughter's still ask when Tyson will be coming back home:(.

alli_gator said:
I had a MOOG break on half on my old 03 with Cognito Braces. I broke right in the middle of the arm. It only had 20K on it, after being the replacement for the Fabtech HD Idler/Pitman arms. The Cognito brace made it able to move back into a parking spot, but it was mangled beyond recognition.
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Did you have the Fabtechs fail or pulled them when they where having problems? I never seen where they were braking when that started poping up.

The only thing I have seen alot of is the OE tie rods snaping off the tappered shank in the spindle.
 
schulte said:
I went back and found the broken off end. See the attachments for pics; too large to embed. If anyone wants the high resolution versions, PM me your email.
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Have you contacted Moog? I'd be interested to hear what they have to say. They at least owe you for the broken components...............
 
afp said:
Have you contacted Moog? I'd be interested to hear what they have to say. They at least owe you for the broken components...............
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In the process of it now; Actually, Nick is taking care of it all. I'll be very curious to see what they have to say. They're definitely crediting for the part... sure would be nice if they'd pay me for the time lost at work to fix it all ):h.
 
schulte said:
attachment.php
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Well that picture looks exactly the same as the underneath side of my truck 10 minutes ago. Another pitman arm bits the dust. I ordered the Cognito braces about a month ago from Nick at Nor Cal, and put them on no longer than a week and a half ago. 57,000 miles on the truck (40,000 miles on the truck with the lift) and it has the stock pitman and idler arm.
 
Doesn't look like I'll be buying the braces. 1 factory arm and 1 Moog arm broken with the braces doesn't look good. .
 
Max Attitude said:
Doesn't look like I'll be buying the braces. 1 factory arm and 1 Moog arm broken with the braces doesn't look good. .
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Are you looking at how long these have been out on the market and how many members are running them and these is really the only 2 I have heard about that had a issue with the braces installed. I still sell a ton of these and install, if there was more of these popping up I would think we would know about them. I understand your concern but I would not discredit the product at this point. Things can break and looking at the cause is the focus to learn off of.


At this point Just has both broken pitman arms and on both the brake was with in the same angles. I had another truck that we re-built the complete front end but then after felt a pretty good size POP in the front end and after looking we found the steering box sector shaft moving in the box and pushing beyond the trucks steering stops on the spindle to lower control arm. From there the extra push was trying to rotate the pitman with the brace installed past the point it should be going and then twisting the pitman arms. I watched the pitman arm flex and if it's twisting that much the load on the pitman arm shank has to give at some point. We have been looking at a few other trucks as we has them come in and Justin at Cognito has been doing the same. At this point there is not a direct cause or reason but the truck I had here is getting a new steering box do to the play in it we found.



At this point we have just shipped out replacement product to the customers to get them on the road and we are looking at possibility's.
 
The thing is I personally have not heard of this happening without the braces on. I would much rather wear parts out faster than spend $200+ on trying not to...only to crash because of a steering failure. Just my 2 cents at this point.
 
Max Attitude said:
The thing is I personally have not heard of this happening without the braces on. I would much rather wear parts out faster than spend $200+ on trying not to...only to crash because of a steering failure. Just my 2 cents at this point.
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That's kinda what I was thinking too Jared. This issue has me plenty worried for everybody using them. Not at all trying to discredit Nick because he's done alot of good things for these trucks and should continue to be commended for that, but IF it's a worn steering gearbox issue then catastophic failure with the braces on is just a ticking time bomb until the box wears enough. I was hoping Brandon or Devin (one said he'd try) was gonna be able to get a metallurgical opinion one of these days.
 
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