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LML CP4 Lawsuit

THEFERMANATOR said:
You don't have a cp4, completely different fuel system.
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yes i now my 06 doesn't have cp4 pump,but i was thinking of starting to look for a newer truck to replace mine so i'm starting to do research and there's no way i will spend 80 or 90 thousand for a new truck,when i replaced my 6.5 i went with an lbz because of you guys on these sites its been a great truck so witch one will be next all your opinions are greatly appreciated thanks mike
 
If it was me and I was buying a newer diesel truck I would get an L5P. I'd definitely stay away from an LML because of the CP4 issue. Then again, I have thought about a 2500HD with the 6.2 gas engine since the diesel is in the financial stratosphere...
 
Ford was also included in the law suit.

I just bought a 2016 Ford F250. There are a couple of CP-4 fixes that contain the damage to the injection pump, available for all CP-4's from what I read. I will be installing those.

I read that about 5% of CP4's have had serious issues. That's a bunch of trucks.

The companies have been denying warranty claiming the issues were caused by bad fuel. Apparently the CP4 has extreme sensitivity to water or air.

It's hard to combat water at the station. When I fill at home, I have a little piece of mind knowing I have a double bank water trap filters followed by 2 micron filters before I put the fuel in my tank.

When we started shopping, we were looking for nothing but a low mileage LBZ. I got tired and when that happens I just buy the next thing I see.
 
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There's filters they sell to install in the CP4, but they're not guaranteed to stop the contamination from getting to the injectors. CP3's wear out, but rarely do you ever hear of one grenading unless it's tuned and pumping the rail pressure up, or large amounts of contaminated fuel runs through one. For GM, only the LML has a CP4(11-17), they switched to DENSO fuel systems for the L5P after all the CP4 failures, and Bosch's response. Should be interesting for Dodge since Cummins just switched to the CP4 to meet emissions, and Ford is sticking with them. The CP4 runs on the ragged edge since the pistons in it are moving twice as fast as a CP3. Any air, water, or even a minuscule amount of gas will DESTROY a CP4 in a matter of a few miles. Ford uses an air sperating double fuel filter system which is why I think you see slightly fewer CP4 failures on the Ford's, but there's fail as well. If it was me, I wouldn't buy a new diesel unless I had to have the extra torque to tow. Emissions have just about killed the reliability, and the repair cost's have gotten out of hand to say the least.
 
Doesn't the lift pump or lack of one contribute to ease of "air" entering the fuel... History is littered with injection pumps that DIE due to a failed lift pump, POS class reliability of OEM lift pumps, and just getting rid of the troublesome things and dealing with non-stop suction air leaks.

So what CP4 OEM configuration has and does not have a lift pump... Just saying.
 
If I was going to but a newer diesel I would get a Cummins hands down. The fuel system on a L5P is enough to total the truck if it needs replaced. And the 6.7 fords are hit or miss with issues. The early ones we have seen quite a bit of catastrophic failures. They redesigned the engine a few times already. And did it again for 2020. We will see how it does.

Also little things like GM does not paint their frames. I had a L5P coming in for its first oil change. And I laughed at the wax coated frame. What a joke!!! New Gm stuff is straight junk in my opinion.
 
Rockabillyrat said:
If I was going to but a newer diesel I would get a Cummins hands down. The fuel system on a L5P is enough to total the truck if it needs replaced. And the 6.7 fords are hit or miss with issues. The early ones we have seen quite a bit of catastrophic failures. They redesigned the engine a few times already. And did it again for 2020. We will see how it does.

Also little things like GM does not paint their frames. I had a L5P coming in for its first oil change. And I laughed at the wax coated frame. What a joke!!! New Gm stuff is straight junk in my opinion.
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So you think Cummins can do better with a CP4 than the rest of the OEM's that have class actions for "not enough lube in fuel" and CP4 warranty claim refusals?

Some dips#it beancounter at Cummins didn't get this memo and is going to cost the company a lot in 2019+ RAM trucks warranty. Diesel reliability isn't the #1 goal. Cost cutting is via value engineering. RTFM: What Warranty? Fuel problems are on YOU! :vomit:
 
BoostN said:
Explain..
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Over $30k for a complete fuel system on a L5P. We had a guy run ALOT of water through one. Insurance almost totaled the truck

WarWagon said:
So you think Cummins can do better with a CP4 than the rest of the OEM's that have class actions for "not enough lube in fuel" and CP4 warranty claim refusals?

Some dips#it beancounter at Cummins didn't get this memo and is going to cost the company a lot in 2019+ RAM trucks warranty. Diesel reliability isn't the #1 goal. Cost cutting is via value engineering. RTFM: What Warranty? Fuel problems are on YOU! :vomit:
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They may still have problems. But I can change an injection pump on a Cummins in a few hours... unlike any of the v8 competitors. They are so much easier to work on. The 68rfe is really the only downside to a. Cummins.
 
Rockabillyrat said:
Over $30k for a complete fuel system on a L5P. We had a guy run ALOT of water through one. Insurance almost totaled the truck



They may still have problems. But I can change an injection pump on a Cummins in a few hours... unlike any of the v8 competitors. They are so much easier to work on. The 68rfe is really the only downside to a. Cummins.
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I didn't know insurance would cover anything mechanical
 
Rockabillyrat said:
Over $30k for a complete fuel system on a L5P. We had a guy run ALOT of water through one. Insurance almost totaled the truck



They may still have problems. But I can change an injection pump on a Cummins in a few hours... unlike any of the v8 competitors. They are so much easier to work on. The 68rfe is really the only downside to a. Cummins.
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It's still a chunk of change for the parts if warranty is denied. When deciding on a CRAM truck: flat tappet cam 2018 with a CP3 or a 2019 with a roller cam and a CP4. I have seen a pile of trashed Cummins cams at the rebuild shop. IMO it's a slam dunk for a cam warranty failure to be covered, but, a PIA for fuel system warranty. Ask me about bad fuel esp. the "contaminant" of Biodiesel that can be anywhere from an unlabeled 5% to a labeled up to 20% at the pump here in AZ.

Chrysler transmission behind a Cummins!? :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: Get the Aisin transmission. I mean if you done bad in your life you can be reincarnated as, I donno, Las Vegas Hotel Bed Sheets or a Chrysler transmission behind a Cummins. You may as well enjoy your punishment because at that point you really earned it. :D

Rockabillyrat said:
I think they only covered it because he got fuel from a station that was 90% water. So insurance covered.
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Why didn't the station pay up? This is why you use a credit card and save your fuel receipts...

Insurance may cover injection systems from bad fuel, but, they will try and snake out of it with "happened over time" for a bugs in fuel claim.
 
Last I heard there was a lawsuit filed against the fuel station. The insurance company cut us a fat check for the repairs. so I'm sure they are going after the fuel station now to get that money back.

In this guys case they should cover it. Most of the time when I see fuel system failures. Its due to lack of maintenance from the owner. People who take care of their common rails get great life out of them...Unless it has a cp4
 
Will L. said:
Sad thing is a high quality water separating system like is on most boats would eliminate almost all these water failures.
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It doesn't help people will drive with a water in fuel light on for months. Then when the nozzle breaks and destroys the piston. Or the pump grenades its self. They come to me and say they have no idea why it happened!! I probably see 10 or more trucks like that a year. Can't fix stupid.
 
Rockabillyrat said:
It doesn't help people will drive with a water in fuel light on for months. Then when the nozzle breaks and destroys the piston. Or the pump grenades its self. They come to me and say they have no idea why it happened!! I probably see 10 or more trucks like that a year. Can't fix stupid.
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Brother we need to expand on this some. This exact "Stupid" is a reason the Olds 5.7 diesel was a complete failure, but, it's NOT just the operator/driver's fault here. First there is a complete lack of driver training what-so-ever nevermind RTFM to a specific vehicle and "stop the vehicle and tow it when a red light comes on". We read stories of someone bitching all the time that they couldn't get over 25 MPH with a blown transmission on a freeway with their kids in the car and they complain about all the other drivers waving without all fingers extended. Not one second of thought to get their busted ass vehicle off the road and tow it is shown in these stories. GM knew this and decided to skip WIF lights on the first of Olds 5.7 era (A recall was issued to add a WIF light!) and most OEM's skipped good diesel filters even into the late 2000's like Tractor Trailers have had forever.

Second the Goverment doesn't want drivers stalling out and clogging the roadways. They would like the driver to decide when it's safe to get off the road thus: engine and injection system expendable. You can't as an OEM "save the operator from their own stupidity" this could be done, but is illegal, by using water blocking filters linked below. As the filter absorbs water, the water absorbing material will swell, blocking the flow. The engine shutting down from a water blocked filter is unacceptable. The engine must be completely destroyed before stopping... and even then loss of power engine failure for other reasons can trigger a recall.

https://fil-trek.com/product/aquasorb-series/

Some use these water blocking filters between a in-bed aux tank and the main tank. HAHA a CP4 may still die from vapor lock "air" instead of water if a filter like this was used...

Bad fuel is out there. And at the end of the day there is dammed little the average owner can do about it.

I get ignored WIF lights. But you did leave off how unreliable the dammed WIF system is. By the time (if) the light comes on it's too late as damage is being done or is complete. Further consiteration is due to how much more water Biodiesel concentrations can suspend in the fuel vs. non-biodiesel laced diesel. For example "wet" Biodiesel, B99, I had wasn't triggering a WIF light. Adding #2 diesel to bring the concentration down to less than B50 immediataly triggered a WIF light. I am pissing in the ocean shareing the downsides of Biodiesel, however, it may educate some who are attempting to solve water or bugs in fuel problems and don't understand the biodiesel "X" factor of adsorbing and suspending way more water than normal #2 diesel. LSD and ULSD also suspend more water than old school diesel.
 
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