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learning to set timing on with a DB2 IP

Took the truck out this evening into town, drives the same with less black smoke but it's still LOUD. when I was fixing to head out I cranked it up as it had cooled down and it was cool enough for the temp switch to turn on the idle and advance solenoids. The few minutes that was on it was extremely loud. I thing I might move the IP back some and see what it does.

Only other thing I can think that would be making the noise would be the injectors. I did some searching on the other forums and found a post from the PO that put a timeline on when the 99 engine was installed and what the mileage was then. late 2009 it was installed, the truck had about 100K on it then and I was told the engine had around 140K at that time. that was almost 15 years ago. the truck had 284k on it now which would put the engine at around 320k if the ODO is correct. Not sure when the IP was replaced though.
 
In my experience on my 92. the more timing advance the louder the rattle. On cold start, the timing is advanced during high idle and it really makes a clatter. I try to lay off the pedal while its warming up. It's been 20yrs or so since I built the motor, so I found this site to help out on some maintenance. Back then i was on the diesel page trying to find a direction for the build. I think the marks you mentioned are to time the pump to the engine upon assembly. When I rebuilt mine i found that setting was sluggish, so i advanced it. It ran great and got great mpg's and power, but it had a sort of a flutter in the rattle at times. It reminded me of pinging on a gas motor. I backed off the timing a bit and haven't touched it since. It runs really strong. It's mostly stk, with some upgrades without going down the rabbit hole too far and i tuned it to hopefully survive. I think mechanical injection is going to be noisier and offer more.
 
Yeah this morning when I fired it up getting ready to leave for work it was LOUD... I mean real LOUD! HAHA I'm sure I woke the neighborhood up from the rattle echos as everything was quiet in the area and when I cranked it up it sounded like half a dozen guys pounding on steel plate with ball pien hammers!

I will back it off some this afternoon after work. might even disconnect that timing advance solenoid too!

BTW is there a procedure to set that little piece that sits on the throttle shaft which pushes on the advance lever? I don't know what the PO has done to this pump and would like to check that also. I had thought about looking at the IP on the 6.2 engine and seeing where it's at and how soon it begins to push that lever as the throttle shaft starts to move.
 
Well, this afternoon I moved the IP once more back some, not quite as far as I did retarding the timing the other day, but slightly back from where it was in the beginning before I started. engine sounds much better, not near as loud as it was.

I did look at the piece that clamps to the throttle shaft behind the TPS sensor and when moving the throttle I can open it mabye getting the tab about 1/4" from the stop until it begins to push on the advance lever. then I went and looked at the IP that's on the 6.2 engine. it starts pushing on the advance lever the moment you begin to touch the throttle.

@Glagulator or @Rockabillyrat would yall know what the proper adjustment is on this piece that clamps to the throttle shaft? I don't know what it's called. all I'm doing is checking to see what all has been messed with and attempt to get it back to spec or as close to as I can.
 
I did find this on the ford forums for trucks that use this type of pump. I will keep digging and see what else I can find online.

the Light Load Advance Cam(the aluminum piece that the Light Load Advance Lever rides on; it's on the throttle shaft at the top of the IP).
A 'close' method for this is:
1. Leave the throttle at the 'idle' position
2. Loosen the screw holding the cam in place, so the cam can be rotated freely.
3. Rotate the cam back and forth. You will see and feel where the lever starts to be moved by the cam. Place the cam just before this point and tighten such that the throttle can be moved just slightly before the lever starts moving.


Once that is done, listen to the engine. How does it sound. Lots of clatter, no clatter when it accelerates? Does the clatter disappear when it smokes, or get worse?

If it gets worse or has tons of clatter, I would try retarding the pump(rotating the entire pump) based on instructions you've seen around here. If it's sounding like a gasser, advance it.
Click to expand...
 
Rockabillyrat said:
The LLA cam is adjusted on bench. Specs for a 4911 is 6* at 3200rpms. I normally set them as far back as possible to help gain a little timing advance, Just leave a little wiggle room.
Click to expand...
So from what I'm gathering here it might be set too loose where it needs to start moving the advance lever sooner that it does now. as it is I will get lots of rattle out of the engine under light acceleration but it quiets down under heavier loads. if that cam engaged slightly sooner that might help with the loud rattling under "normal" accelerations. I have to move the throttle shaft about 1/4" from the stop before the cam begins to start moving the arm.
 
I’ve seen a few of the face cams badly worn where the plastic white roller is supposed to rotate upon the cam ramp.The roller is found at the top of the advance arm.Sometimes I’ve noticed the roller jammed and it’s just scuffing the face cam and not rotating upon it like it’s supposed to.I periodically lubricate those areas with pb blaster to reduce wear.
 
Well I was at it once more today. I installed a knock off provent to help catch oil, I decided to try moving the LLA cam on the throttle shaft. I marked the shaft so I knew where it was in case I needed to put it back. adjusting it so that it begins to push on the arm sooner made a night and day difference for the engine rattle noises. when I revv the engine, it sounds much quieter and seems like it revvs quicker too. I have not taken it out for a drive yet, but time will tell if this adjustment helped anything.
 
Something I almost started freaking out about was that after i adjusted the LLA cam, I moved the throttle (engine off) and the advance lever arm stayed with the bottom plunger pushed in on the IP 😮 I started the engine and I guess it needs fuel pressure to push it back out LOL. as soon as it cranked up the plunger came back out and worked fine.
 
@Will L. give me your input here. after talking about the timing and what I did moving the cam on the throttle shaft have a look at this video. the paint mark I did a while back came off so I marked it again where it was at before messing with it today. with all the figuring I came to the conclusion the IP was a little too advanced. keep in mind that the timing cover is from a 99 model that doesn't seem to have a factory mark other than a ding on it, not sure if the "flat on one side" ear sticking up is the mark. I took a photo atop of the engine as close to I could lining up where the top nut is on the IP and where the mark is on the IP housing.

I retarded it slightly from there also moved the cam back to were it was before. the cam now does not contact the advance lever until maybe 15% throttle, might be less. Now the advance lever does not come in till slightly later in acceleration. if you have a pump laying around just to see for reference when it makes contact and begins to move the lever maybe some pics or a video showing me as to get a close idea to help me get it in par on where it should be that would be great.

for now, having moved the IP (cable bracket towards the passenger side) retarded slightly, how does this seem in the video? pressing the lever does make the engine go quiet and begins to stumble a little and gives a little smoke. I did try advancing the IP some and when pressing the lever just made it quiet down but did not stumble or smoke any at all.

another question I would like to know is as a timing chain wears, which way should the IP be moved to "compensate" for that?


IMG_5679.jpeg
 
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