LBZ Died on Highway onramp. got it started, but undriveable

[btfarm]

I think we're just not on the same page Kyle. I've seen pics of the wear before on the HPCR systems. We agree, but just have keyboard semantics disease...:hihi:

 

[BigDogYJ]

big dog are you able to get cold balance rate numbers for us.

it might also be possible that you are having a problem related to the crank / cam sensors or reluctor wheel. but i would not jump to that conclusion yet until we rule out the fuel system.

Im heading out there to work on it right now. i'll have them numbers shortly.
Thanks!

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

[video=youtube;LLM26sXTYi0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLM26sXTYi0[/video]

Was this video done in neutral or in gear? If it was done in neutral I would say your injectors are pretty well done. Look at your idle fuel rate just sitting there. In neutral it should be around 8-12MM3 of fuel, and yours is bouncing rapidly from 12-17MM3 of fuel. your timing is dead on for that fuel rate, but it is WAY high. And with the fluctuating rail pressure, I would say an injector return rate test needs to be done as it appears to be pulseing with an injector. Sounds like you got some bad fuel, and I would have a fuel analysis done on it first thing. Also with the high balance and fuel rates, I would suspect a grenaded CP3 as your cause of failure.

 

[BigDogYJ]

Was this video done in neutral or in gear? If it was done in neutral I would say your injectors are pretty well done. Look at your idle fuel rate just sitting there. In neutral it should be around 8-12MM3 of fuel, and yours is bouncing rapidly from 12-17MM3 of fuel. your timing is dead on for that fuel rate, but it is WAY high. And with the fluctuating rail pressure, I would say an injector return rate test needs to be done as it appears to be pulseing with an injector. Sounds like you got some bad fuel, and I would have a fuel analysis done on it first thing. Also with the high balance and fuel rates, I would suspect a grenaded CP3 as your cause of failure.

Those balance rates were with Trans in D, Foot on Brake, no HVAC, engine@ normal operating temp.

 

[BigDogYJ]

big dog are you able to get cold balance rate numbers for us.

it might also be possible that you are having a problem related to the crank / cam sensors or reluctor wheel. but i would not jump to that conclusion yet until we rule out the fuel system.

So.. an interesting turn of events tonight.
I go out and start recording at cold, mind you it was a warm day today (about 95F).
[video=youtube;yz7DuPme3OE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yz7DuPme3OE[/video]

Hang tight. Theres more on the way. My internet connection at home sucks.

 

[BigDogYJ]

So after that, I hooked up EFIlive, decided to see if it behaved the same way as before, When I turn off Inj 5 the idle smoothes out (still knocking/clacking). Return to all inj's on and lope returns.
I then try increasing the FPR pressure manually. As I'm increasing pressure incrementally, I got to about 100MPa and it all of a sudden smoothed out the idle. I quickly returned the pressure back to normal (turned off the override) and it's idling like it should (perfectly smooth and quiet). It almost seems like increasing the pressure caused something that was stuck, to open and start working again. I let it warm up to normal operating temp (~185F), drive it around the block a few times, drives fine. No wierd noises, hiccups, its smooth like it was before this whole fiasco started.

[video=youtube;_yId0_37Ihk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yId0_37Ihk[/video]

So I check the balance rates again at normal operating temp, in Drive, foot on Brake, no HVAC.
all seems ok, except for Inj 4. It seems a little out of spec. But it runs and idles just fine. No smoke, no strange noise.
So would turning off inj 5 balance out an issue with inj 4?
By increasing FPR pressure, could it have caused inj 4 to become unstuck?
I forgot to mention before that a few days ago when this weird idle thing started, I put 32oz of PS silver in the tank along with 8oz of low ash 2 stroke oil. Maybe that running through there finally free'd something up?

By the looks of it, inj 4 may have issues. All the other seem ok to me. But I'll let you guys chime in.
Btw, I have the logs from EFI live. If anyone in interested, I can post them up.

OK, thats all I got for tonight. Thanks for everything!

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

Sounds like you had trah lodged in an injector and it was actually sticking closed, and probably another hanging just off it's seat. The extra pressure probably powered it through the tip. I would keep an eye on the balance rates myself, and I would still take a fuel sample and have it anylized if it was mine.

 

[BigDogYJ]

yeah that makes sense. scary to think that whatever may have clogged it made it through the CAt filter. I was under the assumption the CAT HE fuel filter was on par with Racor's 2 Micron filter? Maybe not.

Would it be ok to drive it with inj 4 being as far out as it is? Do I risk damaging the piston or anything? I'll definitely be checking the balance rates every day.
I guess I should probably run the current tank as is (if its ok to drive it), then keep a good dose of PS or Stanadyne each fill up.


Side note: I ordered the FASS 150 air/water/fuel separator unit to hopefully keep this from happening again in my future. Also to reduce the chance of collapsing one of those soft lines.

Thanks,
Jamison

 

[tanman_2006]

I've got one reading + or - 7 and 2 reading + or - 5 and got told they were fine a couple weeks ago. Cant remember weather they were up or down but they are getting off a bit.

 

[dmaxfireman]

if you are driving down the road and have a huge surge and a puff of white smoke come out the exhaust that is a stuck injector and only a matter of time before you melt, crack, or put a hole in a piston. I would venture to guess you need a set of injectors. Whatever damaged that one injector, odds are it damaged the others as well. If I were you I would look into getting a set promptly.

There is also a chance that along with the injectors you may have to replace your fuel pressure regulator. You won't know for sure until you replace the injectors.

 

[killerbee]

Do you realluy think you are saving $ by not getting a $75 written diagnosis from a trained professional? 3 weeks and countless hours of your time. Unless you are unemployed, this is silly.

Your issue could very well be electrical.

 

[Marauderer]

Darn Michael you want to take all the fun and learning out of it.

 

[killerbee]

I must have missed the part where getting stranded is fun.

 

[SfcJones]

yeah that makes sense. scary to think that whatever may have clogged it made it through the CAt filter. I was under the assumption the CAT HE fuel filter was on par with Racor's 2 Micron filter? Maybe not.

Would it be ok to drive it with inj 4 being as far out as it is? Do I risk damaging the piston or anything? I'll definitely be checking the balance rates every day.
I guess I should probably run the current tank as is (if its ok to drive it), then keep a good dose of PS or Stanadyne each fill up.


Side note: I ordered the FASS 150 air/water/fuel separator unit to hopefully keep this from happening again in my future. Also to reduce the chance of collapsing one of those soft lines.

Thanks,
Jamison

You could also have a fuel line that might have some rust in it....rust particles can cause this in my opinion...

 

[BigDogYJ]

Now it runs, but P0087 after lift pump install.

ok, so its been a while again. I've not had a lot of time to deal with it. But I finally got the FASS 150 installed. got it primed and running good. Inj balance rates seem good. drove around in town for about an hour last night. after that, I gave it a good WOT run on the highway to about 70 mph. Let off the throttle and it threw P0087 and limped. wont rev past 2k rpms. I pull over, clear the code, start it back up, runs fine. I can accelerate pretty decently, but gave it another WOT run to 50 mph, let off throttle and P0087 again. I did this 3 times and it behaves the same way each time. im planning on hooking up the efi live tonight and get some logging while it happens. Also was thinking about doing the bottle test for the FPRV.

I appreciate everyones help and opinions. I am very stubborn when it comes to fixing things myself, but this one may have gotten the best of me. I ended up buying a POS beater toyota pickup to drive for now while I get this resolved. If anyone knows of any good dmax tech in northern California, I'd be interested to at least give them a call and see if they would be able to diagnose it without it costing me a ton. Im very good at working on vehicles and fixing things, but i just dont know enough about this diesel to feel comfortable to tear into it without knowing what Im going after.


So just to confirm: Stock ECM Tune, FASS 150 HD, CAT 2 Micron (using Nicktane adapter on factory filter housing), stock air intake, EGR blocked, nothing else in the fuel system has been touched.

Also, here's a video of the current balance rates after FASS 150 install and at normal operating temp.
[video=youtube_share;2iC-fYmx4-8]http://youtu.be/2iC-fYmx4-8[/video]

Thanks again.

 

[BigDogYJ]

Ok, so last night I was able to get EFI live hooked up and confirmed the drop in pressure (at least what the pressure sensor is showing).
I'll attach a few pictures to show what I'm seeing and also attach the full log file if anyone cares to look at it. I was going to do a bottle test on the FPRV but didnt have the right diameter hose. I'll grab some tomorrow on my way back from work and see what the outcome is.

Idle shows Actual only varies a couple hundred psi from desired.


First 3 WOT runs (First seems ok, but the next two progressively get worse)


The 4th WOT run finally tripped the P0087 code, then it basically limped and defueled to get RPM's under 2k RPM. I tried letting off the throttle and getting back on (as shown by the dips in desired rail pressure) but it would not fuel over 2k rpm.


Limped it back home under 2k rpms and cleared code


Here is the full log from EFI Live
View attachment 06LBZ_Dually_P0087.efi

Thanks again.
Btw, if FPRV passes the bottle test, then I will most likely be pulling the bed off to check the fuel pickup in the tank and make sure there is no crap in there clogging it up.

 

[BigDogYJ]

Well no fuel leaking past FPRV.
So I pulled the bed today and checked inside the tank. Nothing in there but diesel fuel. Pulled suction assembly apart, no restriction there. I ordered the fass fuel pickup so I'll be putting that in for good measure. After that I'm putting the bed back on and im gonna have to take it somewhere to have them look at it. Ive checked everything up to the cp3.

The only place I've heard about is Left Coast Diesel in Livermore. Does anyone have anywhere else they would recommend in northern CA?

Thanks,
Jamison

 

[BigDogYJ]

Well I broke down and dropped off the truck at Left Coast Diesel yesterday. Got a call a few mins ago, they found the cp3 putting out 55mPa or kPa when it should be at 180mPa/kPa.
They are quoting $800 for remanned bosch cp3 and 12 hrs labor to R&R for a total of about $2500. Anyone object to any of this or should I question anything? They warranty their work for 12 mo / 12k miles.
Let me know what you guys think.

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

Make sure they did a return rate and bottle test before condemning the CP3. LBZ injectors do go out every once in awhile. Not as often as LB7's do, but it doesn't take much trash to wipe them out. And if a CP3 went out, the fuel rails probably need to be pulled and flushed as well. To many shops will condemn a CP3 and THEN check the injectors as they know they have you once they do the CP3 and your pretty well at there mercy to get it fixed and out the door.

 

[BigDogYJ]

Make sure they did a return rate and bottle test before condemning the CP3. LBZ injectors do go out every once in awhile. Not as often as LB7's do, but it doesn't take much trash to wipe them out. And if a CP3 went out, the fuel rails probably need to be pulled and flushed as well. To many shops will condemn a CP3 and THEN check the injectors as they know they have you once they do the CP3 and your pretty well at there mercy to get it fixed and out the door.

I will definitely have them check that stuff. Thanks! Also, keep in mind, I drove it to the shop with the lift pump on and it made it there, but seriously lacking power on inclines. may not have been the smartest thing to do, but i figured I'd drive and if I ran into a problem then tow it from there. the closer I get the cheaper the tow will be. might have to look into AAA