Knock Knock Knock all day long...

[rigive]

Sorry for the delay guys and gals. I'll try to answer the questions / coments as they came in this morning.

A youtube video of this noise would be very valuable. Good luck to you.

My internet guess is...heat shield loose between the turbo and valve cover.

We'll try to get a video up sometime tomorrow.

As for the heat shield, not it he currently has it removed.

Did you hear the motor run before it was purchased?
It may be the reason it was sold is because it was knocking

He has not heard the motor run prior to installing in this vehicle. Very well could be the reason it was sold.

Does the engine miss too??

These things should purge air in short order.

Did you have the injector lines off the engine??

If so there exists the possibility that a couple are mixed up at the IP. This will cause lots of smoke and noises.

Let us know.

MGW

Engine doesn't miss.

The lines have been off the engine as they were taken from the origional motor that was removed. (don't believe he removed the lines from the IP, just disconnected from the injectors and transfered it to the new motor)

No smoke, not while driving nor at startup.

 

[rigive]

Wanted to say thanks for the help before i forget.

Wednesday lunch update-

Travis started it up at lunch. (idled for a minute, no knock)
Drove around his work parking. (fair sized parking lot 2 minutes, no knock)
Parked truck, left running (idle). (engine begain to knock at idle)
Rev'd it a bit and held the rpm. (no knock)
Let off the gas as the engine settled about to idle. (knocked a little)
Rev'd it a again and again, each time wouldn't knock while at higher than idle rpm then when idleing it would knock.
Continues to knock at idle. No DTC thrown since last cleared. Oil pressure reading aprox 60 on the IC. No smoke from exhaust..

That help any?

 

[Missy Good Wench]

Missy went over to the Rats place with a box of hankies and offered condolences. :grouphug:

Warning

Lock up all rags when the intake is off the engine.


MGW

 

[rigive]

Here is the trick to getting these things up and flying without all the hastle and fight.

On a fresh go round, either a fresh engine or an IP/ injector change.

I always start this way.

Run the Lift pump and make sure I have air free fuel to the IP. Hook the fuel line to the IP. Turn the key to ON then energize the lift pump (not the starter) allow the LP to run for a about 30-45 seconds to fill the IP and purge it out good. (DS pumps will purge right through and get most of the air out of the IP (except pumping chambers)

Next
With the glow plugs removed spin the engine until you have fuel huffing out all the glow plug holes.
The engine will spin at about 400 RPM with the compression relieved.

The IP does not have to fight the compression pressure which will cause the air to remain locked in the system.

With fuel mist blowing out then your ready.
Screw the plugs back in, hook up the wires and lite the fire.

The amount of fooling around, missing, clanking, banging and general Hoopla is cut to near zero time wise.

Once you have the engine running, the final little bubbles will purge quickly and your little creature will purr like a kitten.

The biggy is getting the bulk of that air out without making the IP fight compression pressure.

Compression will be around 400 PSI depending and if the things does fire off then with speed the compression pressure goes even higher.

The IP is then trying to force air into the cylinders and this must exceed the compression.

The fuel oil will go in but air wont and it just bogs things down a bunch.

Next time, give this method a go, Honest, it works quite well and fast too.

Saves a buttload of wear on the starter and the batteries to get it going too.


MGW

MGW - Thanks, Sounds like a plan. I'll have him give this a go.

 

[Missy Good Wench]

Get it at idle (Knocking) loosen each injector line one at a time until knock stops.

That would be the hole.

Is Knock at crank speed??? Possible wrist pin or piston skirt.

If the engine has quite a few miles and had sat a while, carbon buildup on the backside of the intake valves can fall of and get lodged on top of a piston.

Take my word for it, this can make one HELLUVA noise as the piston smackes that stuff into the head.

There is only about .035" clearance between the piston and the head at TDC.\

There is only one way to get this stuff out, Run it and bleed a mist of water into the intake to really steam things up good.

These diesels will leak oil down around the valve stems on the intake valves as there is no stem seals on the intake (Exhaust has a umbrella seal)

The oil speads ou across the intake valve and the heat of combustion cooks the stuff on but only to a point.

Left sit for periods of time this carbon will loosen and fall into the cylinder making a nasty knocking sound.

Check this out http://dieseltowingresource.com/showthread.php?t=11375&page=2#

Scroll though and check out the Picks of the valves.
This was a valve from a good used head that went on my DaHoooley.

MGW

 

[Brooklyn Tow]

GMCTD new injector install advise~ While he's gone, blowing the air out of it, lemme 'splain this all again (from the above, fairly certain he ain't gonna pay attention, but fwiw here goes):

He's got three problems:
Left bank
Right bank
PCM

The bank with the old injectors is sloppy, laid back - the bank with the new injectors is tight, on-time

PCM manages idle by varying fuel rate cylinder by cylinder as needed to maintain even idle speed - thus, first sloppy old injector cyl results in extra fuel to keep rpm up - next tight new injector cyl now needs less fuel because of the new injector plus the first cyl got extra fuel - next oi sloppy cyl needs more fuel - next ni cyl needs much less - next oi cyl needs more, etc etc - PCM is headed for 3rd deg black belt PMS as a result of the opposite banks of unmatched old\new injectors, plus two cyls on each bank fire adjacently: 1-8-7-2-6-5-4-3 - thus the noises and uneven idle, not even to mention trapped air bubbles in the new injectors, which ain't gonna inject under most circumstances - thus the instructions to 'drive' it out.............

If he had a scantool, he'd see this as DTC91-98 Cyl Bal Errors, which don't show up on the CEL, plus the varying idle rpm and idle fuel rates, and probably timing variations

Thus, always a good idea to replace all eight injectors at the same setting - MrGoodservice then pulls the OS connector, which disables the variable idle function, which allows the injectors to air-bleed without driving PCM and owner crazy - prollem is, no OS = long-hard-start mode, even more confusing to the novitiate Dieseler, who's already worried sick that he's done something wrong and possibly damaging - thus, the instructions to 'drive' it out........

Maybe You/we/someone can archive this in the Diesel Tech Library....If it's breaking any rules please remove/delete....and give me a Demerit.

 

[Acesneights1]

well it was my thread over there so I say post it. Missy, that works but pulling glows is a PIA on r/s. Much easier with DS4 to pull the O/S or just drive it. Rigive, around parking lot not good enough. I took it up to highway speed on 2 lane road.

 

[Missy Good Wench]

RH side is easy to pull glows out.

Takes about 10 minutes to get them all out.

RH tire and wheel, OFF.
Safety block Under the truck
Rubber inner splash flap OFF
Sit on Butt Remove glow wiring tubes (2)
Glow plug connectors Umplug cyls 2-4-6
slide under truck unplug #8 plug
Remove glow plugs with 1/4 drive wratchet,deep socket and 6 inch or?? extension

Very quick and easy. Sitting on a box by the front hub all but the #8 are done from by the wheel house, slide under once more and shorten the tooling way up then reach between the down pipe and the manifold and do the #8 plug.

Most folks never think to use the access area available by removing the rubber splash guard.


MGW

 

[Missy Good Wench]

Things that can be worked on easily by removing the RH tire/wheel and the rubber splash flap.

Starter rear support
Starter solenoid connection (electrical)
Exhaust manifold bolts (all)
Glow plugs
Turbo drain tube to block adapter.

It may seem like a lot of work to remove the tire/wheel assembly and the rubber splash flap but it takes only a very short time and the access afforded to these otherwise almost inaccessible items is amazing.

Cuts the time to do these things drastically and also preserves the skin on your arms, hands and the neighbors ears


Been there done this many times :thumbsup:

MGW

 

[Pruittx2]

A 3in body lift does wonders also for accessing things on the engine! ):h

 

[Matt Bachand]

Things that can be worked on easily by removing the RH tire/wheel and the rubber splash flap.

Starter rear support
Starter solenoid connection (electrical)
Exhaust manifold bolts (all)
Glow plugs
Turbo drain tube to block adapter.

It may seem like a lot of work to remove the tire/wheel assembly and the rubber splash flap but it takes only a very short time and the access afforded to these otherwise almost inaccessible items is amazing.

Cuts the time to do these things drastically and also preserves the skin on your arms, hands and the neighbors ears


Been there done this many times :thumbsup:

MGW

Would like to add Downpipe/exhaust overhaul, and turbo replacement to your list.

Would have to imagine injectors would be easier also.

Perfect way to tap a pyro probe to the turbo collector boss too.

Once you have it out once (rust belt people) it does come out fast and easy. Air ratchet setup highly recommended.

I do agree, if you don't even think about it, and whip it off first thing, not only does it save time, but lets you do all sorts of housecleaning, including cleaning muck and debris on the radiator core support too.

Also replacing and checking those pesty ground straps that are poorly routed alongside the downpipe. Bad design. I eliminated those all together after replacing them twice in 2 years. Re-routed heavy gauge wires to frame by the bolt that holds brake lines on IFO tire.

 

[Brooklyn Tow]

I believe the metal "straps are there because of the proximity to the heat generating items.

 

[bison]

As far as feeling like an a$$, -I have you all beat.

I destroyed a freshly built 18:1 motor and broke a mint condition 506 block because a shoprag got sucked into an intake port.

The sound of coolant running into the oil pan on a freshly built engine was enough to literally make my heart hit the ground.

Talk about feelin' stupid, -dat would be ME!!! :mad2:

If you keep bringing it up,mebby should change your handle to Ragman

 

[Missy Good Wench]

The issues such as why a certain item is where it is located (ground straps etc)
in many cases can be explained by the order in which things go together at the factory.

I agree that there are many things that just suck when it comes to servicing but the factory installs loads of stuff at different times in the build and having certain things grouped together allows the assembly personel to do many things without having to move very far thus speeding the process.

The ground straps under and around the down pipe are in a real crappy spot for sure.

So we the final end user come along and ass needed add some braided straps or ??? other grounding device elsewhere that is easier to reach.

The whole point is to have the body,frame and engine all grounded to each other.

If the end user and or the folks that have to work on these things were building them things would definately be a lot different for sure.


MGW

 

[bison]

IMO,Them engineers and designers should have spend a mandatory 10 yrs in the field as a mechanic before moving on to designing vehicles.

But then,building a foolproof vehicle aint good for the economy at large.
Its all about money anyway.

 

[Missy Good Wench]

Fool proof is not the goal, but they could be a lot better.

Un fortunately the profit margins have pinched things so tight that the builders have to make it go as easily and quickly during assembly as they can.

Many of the isues are such that by the next model year things will have completely changed anyway and certain problems wont even be there.

Emission regs keep the poor crazed engineers in a contant state of turmoil, trying to come up with ways to meet the latest batch of rules made by idiots that have not even one shread of a clue as to whats reasonable.


I dont really know what the bottom line per unit profit on a new diesel pickup is. Dont have a clue.

After everything is paid, I'm sure its not a whole lot.

MGW

 

[bison]

Fool proof is not the goal, but they could be a lot better.

Un fortunately the profit margins have pinched things so tight that the builders have to make it go as easily and quickly during assembly as they can.

Many of the isues are such that by the next model year things will have completely changed anyway and certain problems wont even be there.

Emission regs keep the poor crazed engineers in a contant state of turmoil, trying to come up with ways to meet the latest batch of rules made by idiots that have not even one shread of a clue as to whats reasonable.


I dont really know what the bottom line per unit profit on a new diesel pickup is. Dont have a clue.

After everything is paid, I'm sure its not a whole lot.

MGW

It sure got to beat the piss out of farming

 

[Matt Bachand]

If you keep bringing it up,mebby should change your handle to Ragman

That right there is funny bro!!!:thumbsup::thumbsup:h