• Welcome to The Truck Stop! We see you haven't REGISTERED yet.

    Your truck knowledge is missing!
    • Registration is FREE , all we need is your birthday and email. (We don't share ANY data with ANYONE)
    • We have tons of knowledge here for your diesel truck!
    • Post your own topics and reply to existing threads to help others out!
    • NO ADS! The site is fully functional and ad free!
    CLICK HERE TO REGISTER!

    Problems registering? Click here to contact us!

    Already registered, but need a PASSWORD RESET? CLICK HERE TO RESET YOUR PASSWORD!

jump A+B=13 not 12?? + Poppet Valve IP Question

B

Bigfootedalien

New Member
Messages
19
Reaction score
0
Location
49920
2 Questions - 95TD GMC Sierra Xc 4x4 Vin S ::: When I jump A+B (OBD1) it starts with 1-3/1-3/1-3 the codes then 1-3/1-3/1-3 end ! WHY am I getting a 1-3 flash when it should be a 1-2 flash ? Should I be concerened! I Cleared all coded (pedals & retested DTCS & got again 1-3/1-3/1-3 then 6-2 x3 then back 1-3 x3! It cleared all codes & set code 62! Why 13 & not 12?

Question 2: I just sent my IP in for a rebuild (I was getting a DTC of 34 + No fuel @ the injectors) The rebuilder said the Poppet Valve was busted (DS4 pump - 5521) : Wheres the Poppet Valve lokated ? Why would that break / what would cause it to break (will i have a problem with my rebuilt pump?)

Thanks lar:thumbsup:
 
13 is the ESO ( engine shut off sol) that could just be a bad connection at the fuse, been there done that. Most likely why there was no fuel.

34 is the inj timing stepper motor, that is controlled by the ecm to change inj timing.

You should be fine with the new pump

BTW welcome
 
Its good to know that when there are codes it wont flash the 12 first, just what the codes are. At least in a lot of them it is that way. And with that code, means no power across the shutoff solenoid, which means it wont let fuel into the IP. thats a quick easy fix. Either the fuse is blown, line was broke, or the solenoid, which spins off the top of the IP, failed.
 
Thanks Guys: GREAT to know when theres DTC codes it wont flash 12 on this 95! I tested the shutoff sol (removed + tested + tested juice when keys on ) it all tested good before I removed the pump - the busted poppet valve must have set code 13! How do I RESET that code so it wont show anymore with the new pump? (unhook the battrys?) I already reset everything (w/pedals) & 13 still showed but the new pump isnt installed yet!
 
Tested the shutoff sol by removing it & bench tested it with 12vts - then tested the plugin for 12vts when the keys turned on (both tested good) ::: + I disconnected the brtys yesterday & installed the rebuilt IP & today or tomarrow ill finish it up! If I have questions Ill be back! I mechanically timed IP TDC + about 1/8" toward Dr side for a slight advance! (should be a good place to start). Ill see what the codes bring as I go! Is there anyway I can get ot to TDC Learn without a Tech Tool?
 
All the hard work is done - new rebuilt IP / 2 new FSDs (1 bkup both on the cooler - 1#5 1#9 - hooked up to #9 ) Both FSDs were tested & sent with the rebuilt pump by Fred @ Badger Diesel + I installed a new LP! Finally got it all together this afternoon - 1st test = no fuel again! Blead the Fuel Filter turning eng over it blead good : I unhooked the Fuel Sol Valve by the fuel intake & tested it with power on/off : Works good ! Tested the lift pump & theres no juice kickin in the LP @ key on (during glo plug cycle) - Unhooked the OPS & jumped the + Orange to Gray (to lift pump) & it worked Then I removed the Fuel pump Relay & jumped # 30 (+) to # 87 purple & it ran the LP : thinking it has to be the Fuel Relay cauze the OPS doesnt work under "no" pressure! Anyway I jumped the LP @ the OPS to run then tryed starting to see if itll get fuel & again no fuel @ injectors! NVW said DTC13 may be a bad connection @ the fuse but if I jump the fuel sol (I can hear it click open) that should allow fuel into the new pump right? (therefore no bad connection) Any ideas why no fuel ? STUMPED AGAIN :)))) So I guess I have 2 problems: 1: no + to the LP with key on 2: No Fuel to the IP Testing DTCs again : DTC13 x3 DTC19x3 DTC13x3! Crankshaft pos sensors pluged in - everything looks ok.
 
You can jump the LP at the ALDL connector. Some are pin g although I have heard some say Pin F. If you have a reman IP you should have gotten a working ESO if the IP was bench tested. Check the fuse for it. Mine was blowing fuses. Turned out to be the harness going to the IP had chaffed through by the back side of the Intake Manifold.
 
I'm having a little trouble understanding what you did. Did you test for power at the ESO with the key on ? You will NOT have power to the LP on OBD1 unless truck HAS Oil Pressure. Put a jumper to the ESO and see if you get fuel ? Also how long have you tried craning to get fuel to the injs ? If this is a fresh IP install it taking quite a bit of cranking with ALL the lines loose to get the air purged. expect thte truck to sound horrible and run like a bag of sh^t until you "run it out".
 
Thanks Ace: I plan on getting that GMTDScan Tech tool as soon as $$ comes in - i just put $3000 into this 95 GMC Sierra Xc 4x4 : Put new heads/timing components - ran it for 2 weeks & the IP went ! Maybe Im confused on the fuel shutoff sol & the ESO are they the same solinoid? the fuel Sol I tested (2 wire pin connect) by the fuel intake on the IP works good (long silver cylinder) : tested it with KOn : has juice & can hear it click!
 
So you started with no fuel to the injectors, replaced all this stuff and still no fuel to the injectors. This is why we stress doing diagnostic testing and research.

Your LP only runs during crank and when there is oil pressure. You probably should have spent the $200 on GMTDScanTech before the $3000 on the rest :D

You tested to make sure there was voltage and the ESO/FSO soloind (same thing) worked with the ignition right, and not just jumping it with 12V. Have you cleared the codes and the 13 still comes back? Or is it really flashing 12 (Flash......Flash.Flash)? The PCM wont give you a 13 if the ESO/FSO is functional and plugged in. The PCM provides the ground so it would know if its not getting power.

You need to get a multimeter out and start doing some probing.

No fuel to the injectors is most likely the PCM not sending the inject command which you can check for.
 

Attachments

  • PCM-FSD-IP signals.pdf
    479.8 KB · Views: 31
Heres the tests
6.5L_PMD_FSol_Test2.jpg
: The only confusing part was Xing Volts PMD / B Red F-Sol = .58 on eng crank! not sure if thats AC or DC the Dig Meter i have adjust to AC/DC on its own when reading! Fuel Sol CLICKs when jumped but no click with key on & pluged back up! The cylinder Sol (by fuel intake) I called the ESO but not sure if thats right name : that workes with key on & plugged back in = Click! Plenty of pressure @ the intake IP (7# new LP) ! Hope U can figure something out with these #s! My guess is the PCM isnt sending the Sign to the Fuel Sol! I was reading in 1 forum U can go in with a Tech 1 Scan & TURN OFF the Fuel Sol - IS it possible when the guy @ the Chevy Garage made Tech 1 changes he turned that Sol OFF? tHanks for the Time/advice! Yes I will be buying that GMCTECH Tool in the near future! (I didnt find out about it untill the heads were done:))))
 
Well, based on those numbers it looks like youre not sending the inject command to the IP fuel solenoid. That is if you tested that Fuel Solenoid line to PMD pin B correctly where you only have 0.58V. That should be Volts AC, and most meters you can have it on auto or select AC wavy line or DC straight line. And it has to be tested with the PMD plugged in, so you have to probe through the insulation while cranking to see it correctly. Then you can repair the insulation with some liquid tape or whatever. I have done this with a Multimeter and a Oscilloscope and they show the same thing, 1.5ish V pulse (peak to peak, aka VAC from 0 to 1.5V), and while reving the peak to peak goes from 0 to 2V up to 2V to 7V (5V difference)

The IP Fuel Solenoid operates on 2-5V output from the PMD, so please dont jumper it to 12V. It wont output voltage until the PMD receives the correct stimulus signal from the PCM.

If you make the meter show VAC and you still have less than 1VAC when cranking that would suggest a bad PMD or low battery voltage input perhaps. Check battery voltage when you are cranking. Does it crank fast? And if you know for sure the PMD is good, the extenstion wire is good (ohm it out from side to side and try not having an extension attached), and battery voltage is good through cranking, then I would swap the PCM out. I have an extra you could try if you can't find one.

There is no way person could have turned off anything in the PCM and left it off with the scanner.
 
Oh, and when I get home tonight I will go check the ohms across the IP fuel solenoid like you did and got 0.4 ohms. That seems low to me, like some coil breakdown or something, but will check.

EDIT: I checked and mine is also around 0.4 Ohms so you are good there
 
Last edited:
Thanks Buddy: I Xed the red (B) wire to the Sol by stripping of a small piece & connecting it there - PMD plugged in! I tested it using both PMDS I have ($9 + #5) Both were sent with the pump & suposidly tested with the pump & both show the same value .58 v @ cranking! (Ill OHM test both & send the results today) Testing the Sol by jump 12vt (as in the picture the 1st time i just tutched it & it clicked - held it on for a sec & it got hot (jumper) so I just tuched it again to make sure it clicks! (How do U go from 12vts to 5vts with a resistor?) The PMDS were hooked up direct to the small harness (not through the extension cable) ! Can U OHM test your Optical Sensor on pnk/yel for me? My old 1 had ohms / the new 1 with the new filter assy I just got has open between pnk/yel! both PMDs I have are suppose to be good/tested by badger diesel & came with the rebuilt pump! So the PMD sends 2-5vt AC in pulses to the Sol & the sol opens on every pulse right? can U run 2-5vt DC to keep it open to get it running?
 
buddy Xing the #9 PMD left-rt with blk to sol on left then red/pnk/blk/red sol/gn :: Using left blk as blk wire on ohm meter = 5.23 / 13.3/8.1/16/8.6 (aprox ohms on all as they moved slowly as holding!) With the 2 pmds mounted with the old pump - both were plugged in & tested to get fuel also & neither of them opened the sol to get fuel + Fred @ badger Diesel was suppose to send 2 tested PMDS with the rebuilt pump! I really doubt if 4 pmds are the fault - something somewhere else is the problem!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top