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Injection pump timing concerns.......

Yachtcare

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Posting in the 6.2 section for reasons that will become obvious.

Finally got fed up with the DS4 on the 6.5 and ripped it off the engine. I had a great running 6.2 from an '88 G30 hanging around the shop for a couple of years so decided to use that DB2 as a replacement. (It is a DB2829 4646).

Here's what is done with this conversion, and the ensuing problem I have been encountering.

Turned up the fuel screw on the IP about 1/3 of a turn, went in thru the side plate, not the top as to not mess with the governor springs etc. Figured I could turn fuel up more later, but hoping this was enough to get the truck running well enough for fine tuning later.

Used timing marks on the 6.2 as a reference where to set initial timing on the 6.5. Did NOT change timing set or chain. Utilized the same gear that came off of DS4 pump as that has "run in" against lower gear over the past. Set dot to dot as should be.

The DS4 had a FTB (feed the beast) mod done in the past. As I retained the filter manager from the DS4 set up, I added a 3/8" barb in place of the 1/4" fuel inlet on the back of the DB2. I also run a Cummins lift that supposedly puts out 12 to 14 psi. I do not have a pressure gauge, but pressure is much higher than stock. Used the stock DB2 injector lines. As they were from a van, the short body injectors were installed on the 6.2, and they fit perfectly. Injectors were replaced a year ago, and have maybe 10K on them.

The truck ran, but heavy misfire on initial startup. Figuring lots of air in line I struggled with it for a while, but did not improve. I began advancing the pump(turning toward the driver side) Got truck to where it will idle smooth, but pump is advanced almost all the way to the limits of the slots on the IP. It still stumbles and smokes(white)a LOT on cold start. But with a little throttle for about ten seconds clears up and idles nice. HPCA and advance is hooked up, but the advance doesn't seem to be operating, so that could be that part of the problem?

Havent gotten the tranny shifting situation worked out yet,(planning on keeping it simple with a manual shift solution/probably order a Jake's, and a floor shifter after the holiday) so haven't actually driven truck in a real world sense. I have limp mode reverse and second, so I can move truck around the shop when needed.

Just seeing if I can get some input on what the timing issue might be.......Not enough fuel? Turn screw up more? Too much fuel (lift) pressure? Or something else I'm missing entirely?

TIA
 
X2 ^^
Back off the PSI from LP.
TransGo makes a full manual shift kit. I have it on one of my vehicles (toy) I really dont recomend one for a DD.
CompuShift makes a very nice trans controller. I ran one on the Burb for awhile. If you need one lemeno.
 
X3, I use a FRC-10 and a pressure regulator to keep the psi at 8* for a DB2.... too much psi will break a DB2 pump, it causes too much advance inside the IP and can break the shaft..

A cheap 20$ fuel psi gauge is easy to install and will be a big help to ya...

Here is a conversion guide that will help with converting from DS4 - DB2
DB2 conversion guide ---- http://www.mediafire.com/?4wj51rn22o6z6
 
Get the Lift Pump PSI down by using a Walbro FB5. Too much pressure as said above messes with timing. (Some) Timing by RPM is done in a DB2 by transfer pump pressure - adding 10 PSI to the transfer pump moves the timing where it shouldn't be at that RPM.

The cold advance is required to get the white smoke down during startup. It adds like 3 degrees - max advance. The DS4 and DB2 timing marks don't mean anything as they weren't accurate to begin with and vary. Time it by ear. But don't time it by cold startup smoke as you must have the cold advance working first.
 
If he has had to advance timing to get it to run better higher fuel pressure is not advancing timing. I've ran 25 psi on these pumps with no problem. Between 25-30psi does advance timing somewhat.
 
If he has had to advance timing to get it to run better higher fuel pressure is not advancing timing. I've ran 25 psi on these pumps with no problem. Between 25-30psi does advance timing somewhat.

DS4 is electronic and a whole different animal than the DB2. DS4 (like your 1995 has) you worry about blowing the shaft seal with pressure as the computer controls timing. DB2 is sensitive to lift pump pressure for timing.
 
DS4 is electronic and a whole different animal than the DB2. DS4 (like your 1995 has) you worry about blowing the shaft seal with pressure as the computer controls timing. DB2 is sensitive to lift pump pressure for timing.
Since the op has a db2 this is what I am talking about. I've pushed over 30 psi to them already with no issue except it advanced timing. I have a customer with a db2 that runs between 20-25 all the time and he has no issue at all yet.
 
Thats new to me, So the IP is just always at max advance timing then? Does it present other drivability issues? Run hot...ect
Im not up on the tuning like I should be, but it seems like you run a higher risk of problems always at max timing (if you are?)
 
kinda my thought.......

If he has had to advance timing to get it to run better higher fuel pressure is not advancing timing. I've ran 25 psi on these pumps with no problem. Between 25-30psi does advance timing somewhat.

If higher pressure is advancing, I should be going the other way with the pump?

Hate the idea of going back to a stock lift, but may have to try it if I cant find a suitable pressure regulator to put inline. Everything I've researched thus far seems to need a vacuum line attached to it to function. Not gonna work on my rig as the vac pump was deleted long ago. Have seen a few diesel specific regulators that are big $$$. If anyone has suggestions as to a suitable regulator, let me know.

Haven't had time to mess with it at all in the past few days. Gonna retard back to the starting point, and see if it's any better now that I'm certain there's no air left in there. Beyond that I'm back at square one.

Thanks for the replies so far.
 
Should be a shite load of fuel regs out there for less than $50. Im thinking gas though, maybe not suitable for real fuels?:hihi:
 
If higher pressure is advancing, I should be going the other way with the pump?

Hate the idea of going back to a stock lift, but may have to try it if I cant find a suitable pressure regulator to put inline. Everything I've researched thus far seems to need a vacuum line attached to it to function. Not gonna work on my rig as the vac pump was deleted long ago. Have seen a few diesel specific regulators that are big $$$. If anyone has suggestions as to a suitable regulator, let me know.

Haven't had time to mess with it at all in the past few days. Gonna retard back to the starting point, and see if it's any better now that I'm certain there's no air left in there. Beyond that I'm back at square one.

Thanks for the replies so far.
I would drive it and then see how it acts. Sometimes you don't get all the air out until you go for a drive and get itto full throttle and get some rpms to it. I would be checking lift pump pressure to see what it is doing. The Cummins lift pumps can do 20-25 if I remember correctly. They are designed to make around 15 psi on the vp44 injection pump that has a lot of return fuel going back to the tank to keep the vp44 cool.
 
Thats new to me, So the IP is just always at max advance timing then? Does it present other drivability issues? Run hot...ect
Im not up on the tuning like I should be, but it seems like you run a higher risk of problems always at max timing (if you are?)
No issues other than more timing at idle. Makes a turbo spool a little later but definitely makes more power. This is assuming you have big fuel Iinlet on the pump and big fuel line for max flow. Having fuel pressure is different from having pressure and flow .
 
Quick update.
Have ordered a FASS FRP 1001 fuel pressure regulator. As further messing with the timing, hasn't done any good. Along with a GloShift pressure gauge to dial it in.
Also ordered a Jake's manual control. May be a week or so for parts to arrive, and get installed.
 
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