how much would you tow?

[Detroit Dan]

I'm hoping to be able to tow my camper with my new (to me) Sub 2500. The camper is 11k gvw, 8500 dry weight. My lifted dually with ATT, tune and exhaust works hard to pull it up the hills. Tows nice on level ground, but reallys struggles in the mountains. It's better than it was before mods. I am probably swapping the ATT to the Sub, 4 inch exhaust but I dont know when I'll get enough money for a tune.
Think this Sub will do it? I think it will, I'm probably a little less power and less gear than the dually, but the dually has 33 inch tires on it which I think is what kills me. But I'm really leery about taking it on a long trip until I really know the truck. I'm still on a temp plate, havent even had the wheels off yet, but I'm trying to plan a trip for April vacation. Thinking about an 8 hour haul to Pennsylvania. Be nice to get the bugs worked out and a short trip out of the way first, but they way it looks right now I might not even be able to get the camper out by April. The snow is literally even with the roof of the trailer on two sides right now.
Anyway, just wintertime cabin fever thinking about stuff.

 

[bk95td]

No sub on your sig. No idea of gear ratio and tire size. You definitly will want to get the cooling system in top shape to pull that much weight in mountains

 

[Pruittx2]

And the Brakes!

 

[635]

New federal laws coming in soon. Vehicles being towed weighing over 10,000 pounds total weight will require the driver to have a CDL. California is using this now and Washington will be using this by July this year. And it will be nation wide. Under 10,000 pounds on a trailer is legal.

 

[buddy]

I would not expect it to be too much of an issue if you set up for success with your ATT, 4" exhaust, K47 air filter box and the 2000 year water pump and a screw on HD clutch with DMax fan. In addition, you'll need to do a proper FTB with 12-14psi of lift pump pressure (which will give you the 9psi at the IP which the DS4 is supposed to have for proper operation). And of course the PCM update.

The 2500s subs already come with 1 ton 3.5" brake drums I believe, so some good slottle rotors up front with ceramic or composite brake pads.

 

[Acesneights1]

New federal laws coming in soon. Vehicles being towed weighing over 10,000 pounds total weight will require the driver to have a CDL. California is using this now and Washington will be using this by July this year. And it will be nation wide. Under 10,000 pounds on a trailer is legal.

That is for vehicles being used for commercial purposes not recrational. They are exempt and anything over 10,000 lbs already requires a USDOT # and falls under federal CSA2010, FMCSA Regs anyway. People towing 5h wheel campers and travel trailers are exempt.

 

[Acesneights1]

Dan,
I have the same truck and plan on towing my 28ft R-Vision with it. Granted my camper is lighter. I think I am about 8-9k loaded. I towed a 7k camper with my 1/2 ton 2 door Tahoe. I think you will be fine as long as you have a weight dist hitch, you brakes on both truck and camper are in good working order. I forgot what year your new burb is but I seem to remember volunteering GMTDScan which means 94-95.wait...It's a 94 right ? I remember commenting on the seats. Anyway my point ...Upgrade the cooling system. The rad will need a good douching if not outright replacement(BTW you could swap it with your Duallys). Also Either get the Heath Cooling upgrade or piece the stuff together yourself. You'll need a Hayden SD clutch and either a factoiry steel 9 blade(my preference) or the Dmax blade and a waterpump from a Model year 2000 6.5TD. Also make sure the truck has a working GM Factory Stat. All this comes with the Heath kits. I'm leaving my Burb stock except I will probably upgrade the ex to 4 inch. where in PA ? You need a 6.5td camping buddy...:rof:

 

[handcannon]

The 2500s subs already come with 1 ton 3.5" brake drums I believe, so some good slottle rotors up front with ceramic or composite brake pads.

If my recent experience means anything the 2500 Subs DO come with 1 ton 3.5" brakes. I was in a pick-n-pull rummaging through the GM stuff and spotted what turned out to be apparently a 94 2500 Sub. It had the 1 ton rear brakes. I pulled everything from backing plates to hubs for my 94 K2500 pickup. The only thing I didn't get were what appeared to be factory origional wheel spacers (about 1.5" thick). Somebody else beat me to the spacers.

I'm after upgrades to my brakes for better braking while towing so if anybody has experiences and/or suggestions for Dan for the fronts please post them up (I could also use the info).

Don

 

[nobby]

If it were me with the 3.73 and that kind of weight I'd go with a 245 tyre. Seem to recall in a prior thread you were discussing a 265 or 235/85. Every little bit helps.

Others have covered cooling etc and yes brakes but as already pointed out you already have the 3.5" rears.

As to the fronts, I went with Powerslot rotors and Hawk LTS pads made a very noticeable difference. This seemed to pop up again and again on various forums as a good combination.

Cheer
Nobby

 

[Detroit Dan]

I definitely am going to do the cooling system mods, my 97 has the dual thermostats and even that made me nervous, at least until I adjusted the fan clutch. Now I can't even get the temps up on the highway with the plow on.
Probably be keeping the little 245s for now. I had a pair of used powerslot rotors somewhere a couple years ago. Wonder if they're still kicking around... I didn't use them on the dually because they looked about half the thickness of the stock rotors, so I turned the stock ones instead. Cant remember if they went in the scrap bin or not.
Buddy, what pump are you talking about? I have a Walbro in the 97, was never really impressed with it at all.

 

[nobby]

Just an FYI to those reading this as I understand it the rotor for the dually JB8 system is 1.50" thick as opposed to 1.26" on the single wheels JD7 system (same diameter of 12.5"). That is no doubt why your rotors were different. So just wanted to make the point that the correct rotors can be had from powerslot for the single wheel systems. Actually if I recall correctly they also list the correct thickness for the dually's.

Cheers
Nobby

 

[Detroit Dan]

well that makes sense. the powerslots I was given did come off a 2500. they looked so wimpy I decided not to use them on the dually. I think I threw them out...
Oh well. Stock HD brakes are a lot better than anybody gives them credit for. I need new HD brakes to control my truck, not to stop the trailer. The trailer has it's own brakes for that.
After discussing the towing issue with my wife, she now thinks it's a good idea to trade the big camper for something a little more reasonable in size. Last year we looked at new double axle popups that were huge inside. Love my camper but don't really like towing it. Wouldn't be bad if it wasn't so darn heavy, being 4 seasons insulated. It doesn't seem like my truck should have trouble pulling it, especially compared to what others are pulling with theirs. Gotta be the big tires. Wish I could access the camper to try it out right now, but it's buried for a long time now.

 

[handcannon]

Just an FYI to those reading this as I understand it the rotor for the dually JB8 system is 1.50" thick as opposed to 1.26" on the single wheels JD7 system (same diameter of 12.5"). Cheers
Nobby

I did some online researching to see if the 1 ton front brakes could be used on my K2500. What I found was that the SRW 1 tons were the same as the 3/4 tons and the DRW fronts had a thicker rotor. The calipers appeared to have the same size piston in the caliper going by the caliper piston rebuild kits I found. The only apparent difference between the 1 ton and 3/4 ton calipers was the 1 tons were made to fit the thicker rotor.

Don

 

[buddy]

I wouldnt necessarily change the Tstat housing, but the 2000 year water pump is the real point to stress, not just the 97-99 high flow one.

Any lift pump that can provide 12psi with good flow value over 50GPH. Not any specific one. Two walbros or two stock ones in series, or one of each would work.

 

[WarWagon]

Cooling System 1st.
Cooling System,
Cooling System!!!

Then
Exhaust and intake work. Like Loose the snorkel and restriction in the fender adapter.
Last a tune and better turbo as budget allows. This is EGT gauge must have territory with the tune...

Look at every part including the weight rating on the hitch sticker and trailer ball and make sure they are all rated to the task. Get a scale slip with and without the trailer when in doubt. Then make sure you don't overload any single 'weak link'.

The 6.5 is slow at towing, tunes or screw adjustments can add 10 MPH to the hill climb speed. The more weight you tow the worse your MPG will be esp. with the 6.5.

 

[Paveltolz]

That is for vehicles being used for commercial purposes not recrational. They are exempt and anything over 10,000 lbs already requires a USDOT # and falls under federal CSA2010, FMCSA Regs anyway. People towing 5h wheel campers and travel trailers are exempt.

RV endorsements for non-commercial vehicles (under 26,001 lbs GVRW) that are towing over 10K 5th wheels apparently have already been in place in CA for some time. Safety issues as well as what I suspect are revenue issues at work (fines). While some states may not have the requirement (yet), a neighboring state just might. Verify with local DMVs for the states being driven through. Know the laws, drive in peace of mind.

According to the CA HP and WA HP personnel called, it should be nationwide in about two years. So, “Coming soon to as state near you.” Still looking at UT DMV site for info but, FWIW, from the CA DMV web site http://dmv.ca.gov/pubs/dl648/dl648pt5.htm:

Recreational Vehicles and Trailers Recreational Trailer Endorsement
A driver must have a fifth-wheel recreational trailer endorsement added to his/her Class C driver license to pull a fifth-wheel recreational trailer over 10,000 lbs., but not over 15,000 lbs. GVWR, which is not used for hire. This endorsement is not required if the driver has a Class A or Noncommercial Class A driver license.
•There is no fee unless your license expires within six months.
•You will take a law test for a noncommercial Class A license based on the information contained in this booklet. You must also pass the Class C law test unless you qualified for a Class C license within the past twelve months.
•You are not required to submit a Health Questionnaire.
•You are not required to take a driving test to add a Recreational Trailer endorsement to your current license.
•No other tests are required.
Over 10K but less than 15K on your 5th wheel RV = class C with endorsement minimum
15K or greater = Non Commercial Class A minimum.

 

[Brooklyn Tow]

FWIW-FYI......That Law puts all the "Chase trucks" (SRW-8600# GVWR) out of business......That'll make all Tow trucks/Wreckers DRW and probably at a min of 12000 GVWR.

 

[Paveltolz]

Not sure about that as the regs I patched in were for Kalifornia, Non-Commercial, 5th wheel trailers (RV Types) and it also addressed the larger Motorhomes too (over 40' but less than 45' IIRC). Me, I'm strictly non-commercial and with a K1500 I'm not going to see 10K trailer weights and definately not going to see a 5th Wheel in my rearview mirrors. Others might "go big" where I would just "go home. "
Someone else will have to investigate Tow Trucks / Commercial Vehicles under 26K etc as I don't want to pull this thread into strands.
My intent was to raise awareness to keep a roadtrip from becoming an episode on "When Vacations Attack." I understand The Place had a write up on one of their members getting CHiP gift certificates though.

 

[Detroit Dan]

Funny, I always noticed that my fuel mileage with the 6.5 doesn't suffer as much as you'd think when towing.

DOT cops in my corner of the country are starting to go after race team haulers. Many of them dont have CDLs, but they say if you have a sponsor name anywhere on the truck, trailer or even the racecar, then it is a business and needs to be treated as commercial. Which kind of makes sense, because you know if anyone is spending any real money they are writing it off as advertising.

 

[GM Guy]

I'm hoping to be able to tow my camper with my new (to me) Sub 2500. The camper is 11k gvw, 8500 dry weight. My lifted dually with ATT, tune and exhaust works hard to pull it up the hills. Tows nice on level ground, but reallys struggles in the mountains. It's better than it was before mods. I am probably swapping the ATT to the Sub, 4 inch exhaust but I dont know when I'll get enough money for a tune.
Think this Sub will do it? I think it will, I'm probably a little less power and less gear than the dually, but the dually has 33 inch tires on it which I think is what kills me. But I'm really leery about taking it on a long trip until I really know the truck. I'm still on a temp plate, havent even had the wheels off yet, but I'm trying to plan a trip for April vacation. Thinking about an 8 hour haul to Pennsylvania. Be nice to get the bugs worked out and a short trip out of the way first, but they way it looks right now I might not even be able to get the camper out by April. The snow is literally even with the roof of the trailer on two sides right now.
Anyway, just wintertime cabin fever thinking about stuff.

In my opinion, the biggest issue with towing anything down the highway is wind resistance. if it wasnt a big deal, the trucking industry wouldnt have invested what they have into aerodynamic research.

I feel that you will have better luck towing a bumper pull RV trailer with your suburban than you did with a pickup. the reason I feel this way is that the big ol suburban body will be a good "stepping stone" for the path of air that needs to get over it. that said, aerodynamic enhancements need to be somewhere on the upgrade list. not before anything else probably, but the thought of "will this modification hurt my aerodynamics" should be kept in mind.

little cheap things to be considered:
leaving a "rake" in the suspension (i know 2wds do, but IDK if you guys' 4x4s have a rake)
leaving or installing an airdam. there is also some arguements that this will help cooling by removing a high pressure pocket of air that is made by air going under the rig, rather than around.
keeping or going to smaller rubber. I know it looks dumb, but it saves fuel and keeps you closer to the ground.
keep the nose clean: it is a tradeoff area here. anything added was added for function, like brush guards or bumper grilleguard combos. IMHO, these protect against deer, but add weight, and negatively affect the airflow through the radiator, and around the front of the rig

I would of course follow all the powertrain recommendations by the more experienced members above, but IMHO everyone needs to keep aerodynamics in the back of their mind.

also, like the signature nickname for the sub! but do you realize that there are quite a few GTA games out there? that does mean that you need more cheap 6.5Ls right?