• Welcome to The Truck Stop! We see you haven't REGISTERED yet.

    Your truck knowledge is missing!
    • Registration is FREE , all we need is your birthday and email. (We don't share ANY data with ANYONE)
    • We have tons of knowledge here for your diesel truck!
    • Post your own topics and reply to existing threads to help others out!
    • NO ADS! The site is fully functional and ad free!
    CLICK HERE TO REGISTER!

    Problems registering? Click here to contact us!

    Already registered, but need a PASSWORD RESET? CLICK HERE TO RESET YOUR PASSWORD!

High flow waterpump popping freeze plug

Why is there little data collected and available? Too soon.

We're all Chevy guys here- how's about this example: the 70's and 80's Chevy/GMC trucks that from the dumb design of external frame fuel tanks killed over 600 people. Why wasn't the info available in the 70's too soon. But in the 80's it was WAIT FOR IT too soon.it was in the 90's the ntsa figured that was way too many people, way more death per truck rate compared any other competitors.

More GM- 1999 a 4.9 billion dollar lawsuit settles. From a 1993 wreck that led the way of it and earlier wrecks in a 1979 Malibu.

Too soon. Wait for it, it's coming.

If you talked to GM would they say there's a problem? The Ivey memo says $2.40 per car is value of a life. Safety changes beyond that amount were not implemented. (Don't worry, inflation puts us at $13-$14 today)

So you start making a new coolant and the company is growing fast, so is your whole industry of new coolants. Then something happens- you find out people are getting badly burned, some to death even from your product. You close up shop, give all the $ away to the victims and start flipping burgers, ooorrrr, you sellmas much as you can in the mean time...
Which would you choose?

There have been and are more pending lawsuits against waterless coolant companies. (Hint- it's like I am purposely not mentioning name brands here for a reason).

Your a big boy, drive a ford pinto if you want - why does everyone know the pinto referance when GM had 3 models worse for the same problem? Weird.

Anyways, drive a pinto, with waterless coolant and propane in the a/c system, with black mambas slithering in the back seat if you choose, just be aware of the possible dangers.

If people want to spend hundreds of dollars more than they need to in order to implement the cooling fixes they need, they can. I just try to share my knowledge in case it can help someone.
 
I feel you, Will (not literally)! The gathering of empirical evidence takes time. Then you add in the corporate lawyers and accounting wonks, throw in a healthy dose of this faux libertarianism that seems to be spreading around and suddenly companies can be marketing finely crushed glass as table salt (or wood cellulose as grated Parmesan cheese) and it's not the manufaturer's fault as "market competition will correct their unethical/faulty/inferior practices or they will go out of business", it's the consumer's fault for buying the product in the first place.

That being said, there are very good reasons it is illegal to use propane in motor vehicle A/C systems, and I'm sure that there will be regulations coming down the road in the future to prohibit certain types of waterless coolants because of their flammability issues. There is a reason for society to have regulations to protect us from unscrupulous/unsafe practices and products. Was a time when you could buy mecurichrome or methiolate anywhere to put on cuts and scrapes, until it was banned because putting mercury into open wounds really isn't such a great idea after all it was found.

Yeah, Will, for want of a 3 cent difference in the cost of a spring in an ignition switch, how many people would still be alive or not crippled today?
 
Last edited:
Well this train has derailed clean off the tracks. :p

Thanks for posting the safety concerns. It gives one pause to think about it.

Be interesting to see the article or more info about the "added risk of burning to death like the kid whose passenger friend in So Cal." as this story is simply incomplete as presented on here.

Take the water less coolant example in context of the heater core failing. I too had a passenger in the truck when the core let go with Green coolant at 15-16 PSI. We got lucky as it didn't spray enough to cause burns and had some warning to stop from the sudden coolant smell. So we were stopped when it started dripping on shoes.

Now in this example I don't run waterless coolant because it's expensive and I am very likely to need to open the cooling system for one reason or another like engine replacement.

Now let's re-run the above example with two changes. Waterless coolant and a hole drilled in the radiator cap for a zero pressure system. The 2 causes of failure of this heater core are just eliminated as there is no real pressure to blow out the not weakened by green water biased coolant corrosion heater core. And if the core did fail there isn't much more than gravity and water pump flow to move it.

Who's idea was it to put a heater core charged to 16 PSI with 200+ degree coolant and two 3/4" hoses to allow the entire cooling system to be dumped into the passenger compartment? They (HVAC) used to be in the engine compartment till the mid 80's.

R290 in AC systems is only illegal in 19 specific states. (Test case perhaps for states denying things allowed elsewhere like gay marriages that just went down.) It's in common use on vehicles in Australia. The oil in all AC systems is flammable and will burn under the proper conditions. Little different the the "woof" spark ignited propane if you can get the concentration just right. The bad news is flammable refrigerants are on the way to keep the patents alive like the R12 ozone scam say HFO-123yf that releases hydrogen fluoride when the rest of the vehicle burns from undersized OEM wiring or hot all the time cruise control brake switches. There is some good video of a simulated hose failure spraying HFO-123yf on a hot manifold burning Just one example. Again cars burn to the ground all the time anyway...



Nevermind the phosgene gas R12 or R134a turns into when burned.

As R290 is 30% more efficient than R134a you will likely see it or other more dangerous refrigerants coming with tighter CAFE rules. Dangerous can mean extreme pressure like carbon dioxide systems.

"When's the last time a house hit another house at 70 mph"
Bad question. Next time you are on the freeway look at all the "Houses" better known as Motor homes, Travel Trailers, Slide in Campers, that are around doing ~70 MPH. They have at the minimum 10 gal of propane tanks and related plumbing in the living spaces and specific to motor homes in the passenger areas in use while going down the road. Some have 100 Gal tanks.
 
Last edited:
Well since this thread completely derailed since aka last looked at it, gotta ask how many deaths attributed to the shitty brakes on the GMT 400 Suburbans?
 
If history repeats itself, we will find out in the year 2025

We need another subject if we're going for most sidetracked thread award.

Really by the responses about the freeze plugs, everybody here gets it.

On other sights I go to for learning Hummer specific info- there are still tons of people that buy it, and the rear block off y into heater hose thing, and more rumors held as gospel.. When I saw another post here that mentioned it in jest I thought, let's make sure the people that come here know the truth.
 
Will L. said:
Why is there little data collected and available? Too soon.

We're all Chevy guys here- how's about this example: the 70's and 80's Chevy/GMC trucks that from the dumb design of external frame fuel tanks killed over 600 people. Why wasn't the info available in the 70's too soon. But in the 80's it was WAIT FOR IT too soon.it was in the 90's the ntsa figured that was way too many people, way more death per truck rate compared any other competitors.

More GM- 1999 a 4.9 billion dollar lawsuit settles. From a 1993 wreck that led the way of it and earlier wrecks in a 1979 Malibu.

Too soon. Wait for it, it's coming.

If you talked to GM would they say there's a problem? The Ivey memo says $2.40 per car is value of a life. Safety changes beyond that amount were not implemented. (Don't worry, inflation puts us at $13-$14 today)

So you start making a new coolant and the company is growing fast, so is your whole industry of new coolants. Then something happens- you find out people are getting badly burned, some to death even from your product. You close up shop, give all the $ away to the victims and start flipping burgers, ooorrrr, you sellmas much as you can in the mean time...
Which would you choose?

There have been and are more pending lawsuits against waterless coolant companies. (Hint- it's like I am purposely not mentioning name brands here for a reason).

Your a big boy, drive a ford pinto if you want - why does everyone know the pinto referance when GM had 3 models worse for the same problem? Weird.

Anyways, drive a pinto, with waterless coolant and propane in the a/c system, with black mambas slithering in the back seat if you choose, just be aware of the possible dangers.

If people want to spend hundreds of dollars more than they need to in order to implement the cooling fixes they need, they can. I just try to share my knowledge in case it can help someone.
Click to expand...

Let's not forget the GMT400 seat belts that fail to lock in rollovers too. The black mamba got my attention...................
 
Husker6.5 said:
I feel you, Will (not literally)! The gathering of empirical evidence takes time. Then you add in the corporate lawyers and accounting wonks, throw in a healthy dose of this faux libertarianism that seems to be spreading around and suddenly companies can be marketing finely crushed glass as table salt (or wood cellulose as grated Parmesan cheese) and it's not the manufaturer's fault as "market competition will correct their unethical/faulty/inferior practices or they will go out of business", it's the consumer's fault for buying the product in the first place.

That being said, there are very good reasons it is illegal to use propane in motor vehicle A/C systems, and I'm sure that there will be regulations coming down the road in the future to prohibit certain types of waterless coolants because of their flammability issues. There is a reason for society to have regulations to protect us from unscrupulous/unsafe practices and products. Was a time when you could buy mecurichrome or methiolate anywhere to put on cuts and scrapes, until it was banned because putting mercury into open wounds really isn't such a great idea after all it was found.

Yeah, Will, for want of a 3 cent difference in the cost of a spring in an ignition switch, how many people would still be alive or not crippled today?
Click to expand...

Ah, secrecy and corporate greed in the pockets of the political powers that pretty much write any legislation for them......
 
Big T said:
Well since this thread completely derailed since aka last looked at it, gotta ask how many deaths attributed to the shitty brakes on the GMT 400 Suburbans?
Click to expand...

IMO the 3/4t systems are better than the undersized and overheated 1/2t systems for the '90's pickups. Still Mush for pedal feel. After SS braid brake lines it's caliper flex that gives some of the pedal movement without action. GM goes on to design and use a FUBAR unreliable parking brake for the 1999+ pickups. At least the 4 wheel disc system otherwise stopped well and had outstanding pad life. If the rear dust shield didn't allow the rear rotors to get ground off to the fins. After Not figuring out how to make a parking brake work - let alone no longer being an E-brake, emergency brake, GM went back to Obsolete rear drum brakes with huge front calipers on the 1/2t pickups. GM didn't even bother to put cooling fins on the 2005+ drums. (Are you Fing kidding me?!) Yeah 1st warranty claim was for warping the drums on my 2005. Further the drums self apply making it IMPOSSIBLE to feather the brakes during a stop to eliminate the "kickback" as the pickup comes to a complete stop. The tires and rear springs wind up while stopping and other things like the engine pushing you all come together to throw the vehicle backwards after a complete stop. Skill allows one to release the brakes some to let the wind-up release without kicking the vehicle back on 4 wheel disc systems. The 2005 drum systems wouldn't let the F off due to the self apply and would always kick back unless you completely release the brakes and try again making just as jerky of a stop.

The Manual Trans 1999+ trucks had a recall over the parking brake, but, somehow the auto equipped just as defective design systems were excluded from the recall thanks to our government caring more about GM than us.

The only other bad I have to say about 4 wheel disc is getting them wet from rain. Driving on wet roads would make the rears ineffective till they dry out. Something slotted rotors help with.
 
WarWagon said:
IMO the 3/4t systems are better than the undersized and overheated 1/2t systems for the '90's pickups. Still Mush for pedal feel. After SS braid brake lines it's caliper flex that gives some of the pedal movement without action. GM goes on to design and use a FUBAR unreliable parking brake for the 1999+ pickups. At least the 4 wheel disc system otherwise stopped well and had outstanding pad life. If the rear dust shield didn't allow the rear rotors to get ground off to the fins. After Not figuring out how to make a parking brake work - let alone no longer being an E-brake, emergency brake, GM went back to Obsolete rear drum brakes with huge front calipers on the 1/2t pickups. GM didn't even bother to put cooling fins on the 2005+ drums. (Are you Fing kidding me?!) Yeah 1st warranty claim was for warping the drums on my 2005. Further the drums self apply making it IMPOSSIBLE to feather the brakes during a stop to eliminate the "kickback" as the pickup comes to a complete stop. The tires and rear springs wind up while stopping and other things like the engine pushing you all come together to throw the vehicle backwards after a complete stop. Skill allows one to release the brakes some to let the wind-up release without kicking the vehicle back on 4 wheel disc systems. The 2005 drum systems wouldn't let the F off due to the self apply and would always kick back unless you completely release the brakes and try again making just as jerky of a stop.

The Manual Trans 1999+ trucks had a recall over the parking brake, but, somehow the auto equipped just as defective design systems were excluded from the recall thanks to our government caring more about GM than us.

The only other bad I have to say about 4 wheel disc is getting them wet from rain. Driving on wet roads would make the rears ineffective till they dry out. Something slotted rotors help with.
Click to expand...

I can deal with rain....we never see it.

The way I look at the axle swap project, for the price of new drums and brake shoes, I'm getting an across the board better solution that's much easier to service. Ever mess with all those springs and bars and crap on the drum brakes? It's a mess and it's obsolete.
 
My 1993 is even more fun to deal with the rear brakes. I get to pop the axles out and then remove the FF bearings with a special tool to remove the drum hub assembly. Then the Drum brake spring fun begins.
 
WarWagon said:
My 1993 is even more fun to deal with the rear brakes. I get to pop the axles out and then remove the FF bearings with a special tool to remove the drum hub assembly. Then the Drum brake spring fun begins.
Click to expand...

The good news is the drum brakes last forever......because they do no work. My drums have 210k miles on them and have a big lip. Probably due for replacement, which is another reason to do the axle swap.

Your '93 sounds like a nightmare.
 
Now you know why he is hard on it, revenge! I hate to think if some idiot tried running that truck on his route that didn't do the maintenance and repairs He did on it. Diligence, intelligence, and effort pays off.
 
Only reason I did the 93 was because the axle seal failed and drowned the shoes. No real wear at 170K - I don't recall if I even turned the drums. I think I got the lead lag shoes installed backwards. Maybe they will have a short 150K life over that or maybe that's why they stop good... :p Certainly one 1993 I had the rears didn't do anything. :mad: I adjust these every other oil change and depend on the e-brake for the driveway I park in. Mine actually do some work and set the rear antilocks off now and then. If I had the funds I would have gone 4 wheel disc seeing the nightmare it was to service them when the seal went. Let alone the weight savings getting rid of those huge heavy "decorative" drums for lighter useful rotors.

The 1995 had the drums slide off the hub after I pulled the axle/hub on one side. :facepalm: How many ways can GM make 3/4 - 1 ton drums?! Then it took a couple new drums before I got a good one(s) that didn't warp or run untrue.

I did take over the route with a lowly 6.5 when someone blew their $1000 ECM on their Cumapart. Not that it's unusual to have a sudden high repair bill in that line of work, but, they could not afford the repair.
 
Here is the picture of the pressure spike that blew the radiator cap clean off. Water pump locked up and dented the timing cover. Blew the top off one battery and it worked 1 week later and then lost voltage as it dried out. Engine sat around for 6 months and then was dropped back in another 1993 - still single T-Stat and HO water pump. Still running in "patch" today. Never did anything to it's freeze plugs. Note that engine doesn't have a block heater.

radcap.jpg

1993.jpg
 
WarWagon said:
Here is the picture of the pressure spike that blew the radiator cap clean off. Water pump locked up and dented the timing cover. Blew the top off one battery and it worked 1 week later and then lost voltage as it dried out. Engine sat around for 6 months and then was dropped back in another 1993 - still single T-Stat and HO water pump. Still running in "patch" today. Never did anything to it's freeze plugs. Note that engine doesn't have a block heater.

View attachment 47687

View attachment 47688
Click to expand...

Did you eat that elk that you hit? That shit is good eating.
 
This was about 6 years ago. My how time flies. But, no, after the truck and trailer ran over the Elk even the DOT guy drug it off into the woods as it was no good. It was a pregnant Elk at that so 2 for 1. Patch literally has more Elk than most hunter's guns!

No Elk Tag required!

http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/th...xploded-and-engine-quit-wont-turn-over.22241/

So to put this HO pump pushing out freeze plugs myth to bed as Busted...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top