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has anybody installed an AC generator on a 6.5?
- Thread starter Drago
- Start date
ak diesel driver
6.5 driver
can you find one small enough to fit that space?
3500GMC
What T F, over
An alternator is AC before it diode'd and rectified.. read somewhere about reworking one.. You'd have to run it at a constant RPM (to be determined by pulleys and engine) to maintain 60 cycles.
Depends on how much current you need I guess..(size)
I'd like to run a higher volume vac pump to scavenge the crankcase.
Depends on how much current you need I guess..(size)
I'd like to run a higher volume vac pump to scavenge the crankcase.
Blueburby1
New Member
AC Generators on running vehicles are usually run off the batts, and use invertors because you can't keep the engine at a constant while driving. although if your talking parked, you could set it for the highest high idle, and have it on a clutch pulley....
- Staff
- #5
Theres also companies that convert large automotive alternators over to A/C alternators, and then run it into an inverter box to get the correct 60 cycles output. They use them in boats quite a bit as well as some construction vehicles.
Blueburby1
New Member
There's a 3000W Modified Sine Inverter at my local Can Tire. normal price 350, on for 175...good buy? I've always wanted to put a large inverter in the truck, I could run it as a generator when on field training with my unit, and in emergencies. could also run work lamps and equipment in the winter when doing vehicle recoveries.
nobby
Old Timey Diesel Guy
Back in the day before the inverter explosion there used to motor generator sets available, the down side to an MG set is that it is using current tom turn the motor no matter what the AC demand. As already suggested nowadays Inverters are a viable option and intelligent as to power consumption. The thing to watch out for with the Inverter is that higher outputs will require larger alternators.
Another solution for engine driven to get around rpm change is a hydraulic driven generator but that would be somewhat complex.
Lastly as Ferm pointed out companies are making AC belt driven units that work irrespective of rpm change. Below is one example.
http://www.raventechpower.com/blackbird.htm
Also here is a short article on it.
http://www.pwmag.com/concrete-setting/selecting-a-vehicle-mounted-generator.aspx
Cheers
Nobby
Another solution for engine driven to get around rpm change is a hydraulic driven generator but that would be somewhat complex.
Lastly as Ferm pointed out companies are making AC belt driven units that work irrespective of rpm change. Below is one example.
http://www.raventechpower.com/blackbird.htm
Also here is a short article on it.
http://www.pwmag.com/concrete-setting/selecting-a-vehicle-mounted-generator.aspx
Cheers
Nobby
jmiller
Recruit
I've been looking to permanently mount a 3kW inverter in my truck. You need 300 AMPs to fully drive that inverter. 0awg cables up to about 6 feet, bigger if longer than that.
I put dual 105A alt's which will give me 2Kw of run with the high idle engaged. With the truck batteries giving another 1Kw of short term surge.
I haven't permanently mounted the inverter, yet, but can raise the hood, pull the snow plow power and hook it up.
If I spring for the high output Alt's I can get the 300amps, But that REQUIRES rewiring the alternator leads to handle that kind of current. (the #10 wire isn't enough, should use #6)
I saw a Bosch unit that was rated at almost 250A, but was like $300 or $400 (for my setup that would be each).
I put dual 105A alt's which will give me 2Kw of run with the high idle engaged. With the truck batteries giving another 1Kw of short term surge.
I haven't permanently mounted the inverter, yet, but can raise the hood, pull the snow plow power and hook it up.
If I spring for the high output Alt's I can get the 300amps, But that REQUIRES rewiring the alternator leads to handle that kind of current. (the #10 wire isn't enough, should use #6)
I saw a Bosch unit that was rated at almost 250A, but was like $300 or $400 (for my setup that would be each).
JayTheCPA
Well-Known Member
After one hurricane came through, I used the 7.3 (with dual alternators), a brick and stone for my high idle controller, connected to a marine inverter and kept the fridge running for a couple days. As mentioned, good wiring and connectors are key as when I went over to a friend's place to run a sump pump and carpet cleaner (more for sucking water out of the basement carpet rather than clean), the connections were not overly happy with the jumper cables when we hit the set-up with ~17 amps of load (inverter rated for 30 and alternators good for 20) and the inverter connection got a little scorched.
When the 7.3 was finished with 'generator duty' I decided to check for carbon build-up by taking it to red-line in 3'rd during an Italian tune-up and made a 2 lane highway disappear in black fog (oops . . .); that was the only time the engine ever belched as it tends to run clear out of the exhaust pipe. Lesson was that the extended high idle time did not really put sufficient load on the engine to keep it clean and I suspect the same will happen to the 6.5.
From an electrical stand point, unless somehow hooking into a building's electrical panel, will need to make sure there is a good ground. (Am presuming I am preaching to the choir here.)
A bonus to the inverter add-on (using the 12v batteries as the power source and back-driven by alternator(s)) is to get an idle controller to adjust the idle as the battery voltage changes rather than blindly set the idle.
I have since bought a Chinese gas generator and plumbed it to the house panel rather than mess with using the trucks (unless I need to in a pinch); the generator option is less expensive compared to beefing-up the 12v systems, uses less fuel, and is a *lot* less noisy :hihi:
When the 7.3 was finished with 'generator duty' I decided to check for carbon build-up by taking it to red-line in 3'rd during an Italian tune-up and made a 2 lane highway disappear in black fog (oops . . .
); that was the only time the engine ever belched as it tends to run clear out of the exhaust pipe. Lesson was that the extended high idle time did not really put sufficient load on the engine to keep it clean and I suspect the same will happen to the 6.5.From an electrical stand point, unless somehow hooking into a building's electrical panel, will need to make sure there is a good ground. (Am presuming I am preaching to the choir here.)
A bonus to the inverter add-on (using the 12v batteries as the power source and back-driven by alternator(s)) is to get an idle controller to adjust the idle as the battery voltage changes rather than blindly set the idle.
I have since bought a Chinese gas generator and plumbed it to the house panel rather than mess with using the trucks (unless I need to in a pinch); the generator option is less expensive compared to beefing-up the 12v systems, uses less fuel, and is a *lot* less noisy :hihi:
Blueburby1
New Member
so am I missing something on the math here? WVA...3000 Watts / 14.4V = 200~ Amps....where do you come up with needing 300? My idea is to run a 3Kw Inverter, single alt, quad battery set up. so two 800CCA Deep Cycle batteries directly attached to the Inverter, attached through a battery select to the trucks dual battery system so I can isolate the deep cycles or introduce them to the stream. The benefit there is in the cold when the two batts don't wanna crank the truck I can de-isolate and garner an extra 1600 amps to crank the truck(instant boost!), if the deep cycles are fully drained I can isolate to not kill the alt, and recharge them with a charger at home, I can use them as an extra buffer during winching operations/invertor operations, and for extended invertor operations while parked, I can isolate them and run the invertor on the deep cycles and still know I can fire up the truck of it's own batteries......or is that a crazy idea not worth investigating?
jmiller
Recruit
My inverter installation instructions said 300 amps. Don't forget the energy lost to invert to A/C and voltage drop on a loaded alternator. As you get to the limit of the alternator, the voltage will drop off, current requirement will then increase to maintain AC power.
When using my snow plow, the hydraulic pump can draw near 200Amps when the pressure is dead headed and the pressure relief valve opens. My voltage drops from 14.5 to below 13v.
Don't forget to factor in 20 amps or more to run the truck too.
I haven't run my inverter at full load, so I don't know what current it takes.
I bought the inverter from a buddy that tried to run his camper with it and a couple 8D's (1100 to 1400cca). He bought a 3kw generator.
All BS aside.
You need to find the installation instructions for the inverter you plan to use.
I found a random manual for a wagan tech 3kW inverter, (google search - wagan 3000 watt inverter instructions) page 6:
It also covers configuring a battery bank. They noted, CCA is meaniless for inverters, Ah (amp hours) and knowing the battery derating factor is key.
Their example talks about needing 1500 watts for 10hours, which will require 150 amps of current for 10 hours. The batteries required to provide this requirement after derating was 16,500 Ah of capacity.
Do some research.
Good luck.
When using my snow plow, the hydraulic pump can draw near 200Amps when the pressure is dead headed and the pressure relief valve opens. My voltage drops from 14.5 to below 13v.
Don't forget to factor in 20 amps or more to run the truck too.
I haven't run my inverter at full load, so I don't know what current it takes.
I bought the inverter from a buddy that tried to run his camper with it and a couple 8D's (1100 to 1400cca). He bought a 3kw generator.
All BS aside.
You need to find the installation instructions for the inverter you plan to use.
I found a random manual for a wagan tech 3kW inverter, (google search - wagan 3000 watt inverter instructions) page 6:
At 3,000 watts continuous output this inverter requires a DC power supply (battery bank)
that can continuously supply 300 amps at 12VDC for the duration of the run time
3000w/12v = 250a so why the extra 50A? that can continuously supply 300 amps at 12VDC for the duration of the run time
It also covers configuring a battery bank. They noted, CCA is meaniless for inverters, Ah (amp hours) and knowing the battery derating factor is key.
Their example talks about needing 1500 watts for 10hours, which will require 150 amps of current for 10 hours. The batteries required to provide this requirement after derating was 16,500 Ah of capacity.
Do some research.
Good luck.
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Blueburby1
New Member
ahh ok makes sense. was just wondering how you did your math/came to number.
I figured CCA is useless, you need to worry about reserve not spike amp rating. I don't think I'd often run the invertor at peak output, but it's nice to know it could power anything I throw at it if needed. my other thought is to just buy a genset and make a cradle in the truck it can be locked into when needed in the truck...the benefit there is I could have it wired into the house when it's not in the truck, where I live, using inverters instead of a genset isn't a solution to home power outages
Figure I'll ask, what do you use your inverter for? plan to use it for?
I figured CCA is useless, you need to worry about reserve not spike amp rating. I don't think I'd often run the invertor at peak output, but it's nice to know it could power anything I throw at it if needed. my other thought is to just buy a genset and make a cradle in the truck it can be locked into when needed in the truck...the benefit there is I could have it wired into the house when it's not in the truck, where I live, using inverters instead of a genset isn't a solution to home power outages
Figure I'll ask, what do you use your inverter for? plan to use it for?
jmiller
Recruit
Primary intended purpose is to power tools and lights in remote work areas. Primarily around the farm for in field harvest repairs and those places to far, to much hassle, to run an extension cord. About a month a year and 1 or 2 times outside of that.
That's why the urgency to mount permanently has not been there. Along with the cost of 15 feet, or so, of #0 awg welding cable, cut off relay, and space in the cab to make the connections and the mount.
For how I use it right now, sitting it on the core support works. I have two short #2 awg leads, for each side, to connect the inverter to top post battery terminals. My snow plow is normally connected there. The dual alts are installed for the inverter, snow plow, jump starts, etc.
My brother inlaw carries a gen set in his truck for big rig road service. Mainly in the winter time for battery charging and un-gelling trucks along the road. Two kerosene heaters, battery charger, insulation board tent, set of fuel filters and the secret sauce for the tank, 2hrs later, fire it up driver. An inverter might be convent for him, the genset is more practical.
For me, the infrequent use and small storage of the inverter is a plus over a genset. Maintenance, stale fuel, storage space issues of a genset are primary in my mind. If I would use it more or needed 5kw or more a genset would be the only game.
That's why the urgency to mount permanently has not been there. Along with the cost of 15 feet, or so, of #0 awg welding cable, cut off relay, and space in the cab to make the connections and the mount.
For how I use it right now, sitting it on the core support works. I have two short #2 awg leads, for each side, to connect the inverter to top post battery terminals. My snow plow is normally connected there. The dual alts are installed for the inverter, snow plow, jump starts, etc.
My brother inlaw carries a gen set in his truck for big rig road service. Mainly in the winter time for battery charging and un-gelling trucks along the road. Two kerosene heaters, battery charger, insulation board tent, set of fuel filters and the secret sauce for the tank, 2hrs later, fire it up driver. An inverter might be convent for him, the genset is more practical.
For me, the infrequent use and small storage of the inverter is a plus over a genset. Maintenance, stale fuel, storage space issues of a genset are primary in my mind. If I would use it more or needed 5kw or more a genset would be the only game.
jmiller
Recruit
Computer foo bar double posted. :mad2:
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nobby
Old Timey Diesel Guy
The reality is that if you plan on using a full 2 - 3kw on an inverter install on a truck then you will have to figure on using the Alternator as well and not just batteries alone. For that you would need to go down the route of installing a true hot rated alternator and not a high output automotive style. This has been discussed before by myself and others, a true hot rated unit puts out at low rpm and does not have any appreciable voltage drop off. There are usually hand wound with multiple diode banks on large heat sinks and are normally externally regulated.
As already stated amp draw is not as simple as using the A=W/V rule as no inverter is 100% efficient and the less money you pay the more inefficient they become. Also efficiency drops off as consumption increases as well as using inadequate wire size feeding the inverter. Also bare in mind to the type of inverter whether true sine wave or quasi sine wave unit. This is becoming less of an issue today but it was the case that many items would not like a square wave style for the AC, Dewalt Chargers, Laser Printers, Some Microwaves for example.
In regards to Deep Cycle batteries, no Automotive style hybrid battery is really a deep cycle nor the marine units come to that they are a compromise. Also regular flooded 8D's are not technically deep cycle either though they do have an okay Ah capacity. If you want a true deep cycle with a good Ah rating then you'll need to consider units such as 6V golf carts or floor scrubber units. To clarify deep cycle as well as referring to a higher amphour capacity also refers to its ability to cycle in regards to deeper discharge/recharger cycles and still have a good lifespan.
Lastly when sizing a battery bank for amphour capacity figure on the 50% rule that is not discharging them more than 50% on an average discharge cycle. So if you indeed calculate that you need say 500Ah for an average daily cycle then in fact you need a 1000Ah battery bank.
It's one thing to install a 3kW unit that really you only use at a say a constant less than 1kW draw with the odd burst to 3kW, but a constant 3kW is a different ball game. If it were me with that higher demand I'd spend my money on say a diesel genset or consider one of the true engine driven AC units that I listed above. I have carried a diesel genset on my work truck on a front platform and simply fill it from the truck using the filter water drain hose.
As already stated amp draw is not as simple as using the A=W/V rule as no inverter is 100% efficient and the less money you pay the more inefficient they become. Also efficiency drops off as consumption increases as well as using inadequate wire size feeding the inverter. Also bare in mind to the type of inverter whether true sine wave or quasi sine wave unit. This is becoming less of an issue today but it was the case that many items would not like a square wave style for the AC, Dewalt Chargers, Laser Printers, Some Microwaves for example.
In regards to Deep Cycle batteries, no Automotive style hybrid battery is really a deep cycle nor the marine units come to that they are a compromise. Also regular flooded 8D's are not technically deep cycle either though they do have an okay Ah capacity. If you want a true deep cycle with a good Ah rating then you'll need to consider units such as 6V golf carts or floor scrubber units. To clarify deep cycle as well as referring to a higher amphour capacity also refers to its ability to cycle in regards to deeper discharge/recharger cycles and still have a good lifespan.
Lastly when sizing a battery bank for amphour capacity figure on the 50% rule that is not discharging them more than 50% on an average discharge cycle. So if you indeed calculate that you need say 500Ah for an average daily cycle then in fact you need a 1000Ah battery bank.
It's one thing to install a 3kW unit that really you only use at a say a constant less than 1kW draw with the odd burst to 3kW, but a constant 3kW is a different ball game. If it were me with that higher demand I'd spend my money on say a diesel genset or consider one of the true engine driven AC units that I listed above. I have carried a diesel genset on my work truck on a front platform and simply fill it from the truck using the filter water drain hose.
Blueburby1
New Member
hold on, do you have pics of the front mount? sorry to OP for major hijack!
nobby
Old Timey Diesel Guy
Regular front hitch with folding platform and genset on that. Sorry no pics and platform currently folded up not in use.
Cheers
Nobby
Cheers
Nobby
Turbine Doc
Just Another Diesel Guy
Other consideration is charging rate/amperage for deep cycle batteries you can kill deep cycle batts with a chagrge rate being too fast, I run my camp on solar power using marine deep cycle batts AGM from a sailboat a buddy was parting out, and I "killed them" by using the wrong charger type thinking 12v is 12v, you need to spend some time at solar power web sites to get in/outs of DC power systems and AC conversion & inverter efficiency, all inverters have a draw on them even in standby not powering anything.
nobby
Old Timey Diesel Guy
Tim you mean voltage in your case. AGM or VRLA batteries have a higher acceptance rate you can sock more amps to them but if the voltage is wrong, then like using an automotive alt. or incorrect charger not suitable for AGM then you'll have issues.
Your point is still good though regular flooded have a lower acceptance rate (amps) so sure its a good point to make that large alts on small battery banks is a bad combination. This is further confused by the acceptance rate reducing as the charge comes up, hence multiple step charge regimens. For flooded deep cycles a good rule of thumb charge rate in the bulk phase is 25% of the 20 hour amphour capacity.
Cheers
Nobby
Your point is still good though regular flooded have a lower acceptance rate (amps) so sure its a good point to make that large alts on small battery banks is a bad combination. This is further confused by the acceptance rate reducing as the charge comes up, hence multiple step charge regimens. For flooded deep cycles a good rule of thumb charge rate in the bulk phase is 25% of the 20 hour amphour capacity.
Cheers
Nobby