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Harmonic Balancer

Crankme69 said:
If it ain't broke leave it alone. I stopped trying to do preventative maintenance a good majority of the replacement parts are JUNK!

Fluid dampener is nice but IMO unless you have a new $7K motor it's like putting lipstick on a pig. I do keep a eye on mine, but I ain't shelling out 400+ to replace something before it needs it...too many other things that are shot that have to be replaced.

Yes I realize this can take the motor out...but we can destroy these motors many ways like running the EGT's at 1400F for extended periods of time or easier with a bad set of squirts...JMHO
Click to expand...


2X

If the balancer elastomer looks ok, leave it and monitor.

If you change it, make sure a new crank bolt and new washer are used and torque to 200ft/lb (http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/showthread.php?612-Torque-Specs)
The bolt and washer recommedation is from an auto engine rebuilder's association service bulletin.

Use locktight! I've seen recommendation to use green on the balancer / crank snout.
I would absolutely recommend red on the balancer retainer bolt.

From experience, if you F this up you can expect this: 6.5 Carnage (yes the crank broke and broke out the #2 main journal)
9 months to a year after proactively changing the harmonic balancer and not getting the bolt tight enough (might have forgot the red locktight)
Upon dissembly, the balancer bolt was removed by finger pressure.
 
So for those that like to be "technical" here is my correspondence with Paul Bennett from Fluiddamper about HBs. You'll need to scroll down to the bottom and read it from the bottom up to be in order.


-----Original Message-----
From: Les
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:04 PM
To: Paul Bennett
Subject: RE: Fluidampr.com Tech Support Request

Do you mind if I post this on a forum?

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Bennett
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 11:26 AM
To: Les
Subject: RE: Fluidampr.com Tech Support Request

The rubber that is inside of the pulley acts more as a torsional spike reducer. This makes sure the belt does not slip or chirp when it's running.
The rubber in the pulley serves as a decoupler mostly, but does not serve much use in reducing engine torsional vibrations. Hope this clears things up.

Paul @ Fluidampr




-----Original Message-----
From: Les
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 4:36 PM
To: Paul Bennett
Subject: RE: Fluidampr.com Tech Support Request


Thanks for the reply. So what would you say the purpose of the rubber in the accessory pulley if for, shock loading??

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Bennett
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 12:27 PM
To: Les
Subject: RE: Fluidampr.com Tech Support Request

Les,

Sorry for the delay, I was out of the office for surgery. I am not sure if you called the office or not while I was gone but I'll try my best to answer your question.

The accessory pulley is part of the damper, but it does NOT function in any way to dampen vibrations. Its only purpose is to drive the belts. Like I said in my previous email, some pulleys are removable while some are machined into the housing as 1 unit. The pulleys are machined to strict tolerances as to make sure there will be no wobbling of any sorts.

Hope this helps,

Paul





-----Original Message-----
From: Les
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 2:05 AM
To: Paul Bennett
Subject: RE: Fluidampr.com Tech Support Request

I understand that I need to use my oem pulley but you didn't answer my ?. Is the accessory pulley, which has rubber isolation built into it considered part of the harmonic balancer system?

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Bennett
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 12:26 PM
To:
Subject: RE: Fluidampr.com Tech Support Request

Les,

Thank you for contacting Fluidamr's tech support.

Depending on the application/engine, the serpentine belts will vary. Some of our dampers have serpentine/v belt grooves while others do not. Our 6.5 chevy damper does not come with belt grooves, you will use our OEM pulleys/belts on this application. If there is anything else I can help you with please feel free to ask.

Thanks,

Paul @ Fluidampr




-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2012 4:54 PM
To: Ivan Snyder; Pete Dandrea; Paul Bennett
Subject: Fluidampr.com Tech Support Request

First Name: Les

Last Name:

Email:

Phone: 907-715-6858

Engine: chevy 6.5 diesel

Comments: was wanting to know if the accessory belt pulley that bolts to the harmonic balancer is considered part of the harmonic balancing system?
 
On the other end of the stick, we can have a TC/flex plate or a flywheel. I have read where the TC full of fluid is less likely to break cranks.. For the most part I'd have to agree seeing that all the fluid in there would almost 'have' to dampen some vibes.... But even that said, a MT behind a 6.2/5 wouldn't make me any more paranoid about my cast crank..

It's like a 6.2/5 is a 'stepper motor' 90 degrees at a time.. lol... Clunk clunk clunk clunk clunk..

Just gettin that out there. :D
 
engine-restorer-250ml-xlg.jpg


:lol:

(sorry, couldn't resist)
 
Get a Scat crank, if the block can still be used. Otherwise try sourcing a used Optimizer 6500 (which might be the best way to go anyway).

Our crank pulley is also refferred to as the secondary balancer, so it could be that in this setup it is part of the dampening system. I have never had rubber on any of my other crank pulleys (gas cars/trucks). The tensioner is there to keep the belt at the right tension to prevent slipping and what not.
 
Sorry to hear about the crank. I am keeping an eye out for a good deal on an Optimizer for when the time comes.
I just happened to notice an increase in vibration this morning that worrys me after this thread. I drove her car and will inspect the balancer this weekend (hopefully).
Anyone know the life expectancy of the fluid damper vs the traditional balancer?
 
Brooklyn Tow said:
Fluidamper is Forever......OEM HB, probably 100,000 mi.
Click to expand...

Depends on the application:

There are frictional dampers as well as inertia-ring-in-high-viscosity-fluid dampers available in the aftermarket, but these have not attained much usage in the higher levels of engine design for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is reliability.
Those types of dampers are mildly effective over a wide range of excitations, but contrary to intuition and hype, they are significantly LESS effective in reducing vibration in a specific, targeted frequency range, the exact situation you have in an aircraft engine. (There is ample research in the engineering literature showing exactly that fact.)
One aftermarket device, the Fluidampr™, is an example of a damper. It dissipates energy by transforming it into heat by shearing action in a high viscosity fluid. Some race car people seem to like it, but it is banned from the top levels of NASCAR racing, reportedly because with extended use at high levels of energy dissipation, the polymers in the shearing fluid become rearranged and the fluid then settles off-center when the engine is stopped. Next time it is run, the nose of the crank is horribly out of balance, and there's a short run from there to crankshaft failure.
Click to expand...

Now that's from a recip aircraft engine building periodical I get.

A road diesel is never going to reach the sustained RPM's they're talking about for Formula one cars or even CUP engines further on in the article. So a fluid damper should, for all intent and purposes, outlast 2 or more rebuilds on a 6.5....500,000-1,000,000 miles or so.

Maybe more.

So, while that's not "forever" it's pretty damned close when you're talking about a 6.5 TD.....
 
for all intent and purposes, outlast 2 or more rebuilds on a 6.5....500,000-1,000,000 miles or so.

Maybe more.

So, while that's not "forever" it's pretty damned close when you're talking about a 6.5 TD.....
Click to expand...


That's close enough to forever for me......LOL:hihi:
 
I'm looking for clarification since this thread deals with the Fluidampr product.
There are 2 available products: 800141 which is 2.443" and the 800191 which comes with spacer # 717639 for a total length of 3.18"

I'm thinking the two are different based on where the pulleys should line up - yes or no?
Can someone help differentiate if I want my setup to look like a '99 ????
 
Last edited:
Would that be found underneath the front cover? Can I see it through a hole somewhere?

I figured since I ordered my engine to be built with mechanical IP in mind, they would leave that off. The 1990 Suburban's don't have any electronic features available on the engine that I can see in the Chiltons or the Chevrolet Service Manual.

My thoughts are that it depends on whether the pulleys are setup for v-belt or serpentine in order to determine how far out the crankshaft pulley would sit.
 
HB stays in the same position regardless of belts. the crank pulley is diff tho. the reluctor wheel is behind the timing cover. If it has a CPS you could look thru that hole but if it has a CPS it should have the wheel.
 
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