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Hard start all of a sudden

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Overkill Is Underrated
Messages
398
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493
Location
Stevenson, Wa.
Yesterday I went for the first start of the day (ambient temps in the 60's) and Moby didn't bark to life in her normal half-a-revolution. Crank, crank sputter, sputter for 10-15 seconds or more till it sllooowwly started to catch, stumbled for maybe one full second and then when she caught for real and settled into a perfect purr-like-a-kitten. What the heck?

Did it again today. Smoke billowing out like mad until it settles to the purr then clears up, where before when it started normal it would do the brief puff on startup then clear.

Once she's started for that first time, she starts fine all day.

Any ideas? I'm thinking glows (one and a half year old Duraterms with Peninsular manual control/timer and new glow loom from PT Wiring Solutions). Or Injectors (one and a half year old rebuilds).

Lift pump pressure? (six month old FRB-5)
IP? (several year old rebuild that has been perfect)

It's been too wet to do any checking but I'll do that and try to get a video at some point but I just wanted to throw it out there to get an idea of general direction to look.

Thanks guys!
 
X2.

Only other variable is veggie fuel or plugging fuel filter?

Any bubbles in the 1/4" return line flowing?
Fuel pressure gauge reading IP inlet sure would be fancy here.
 
ak diesel driver said:
Glows or air in fuel
Click to expand...

Will L. said:
X2.

Only other variable is veggie fuel or plugging fuel filter?

Any bubbles in the 1/4" return line flowing?
Fuel pressure gauge reading IP inlet sure would be fancy here.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the verification guys...
I'l try to get a meter on the glow system today or tomorrow.

I just plan on checking for voltage while holding the switch to make sure the glows are being fed and I know to check continuity on the plugs themselves, right? But I seem to remember reading that they can show good but still be bad? What's the prefered method of verifying good?

And I only run the veggie on long trips, so I've run very little through in the last month or so. Since she runs perfect after start I'll consider the fuel system fine for now, I think.

JMJNet said:
Start by load testing the batteries one at a time?

People expect the worst but start with the easy test first???
Click to expand...

Two brand new (two months) Optima yellow tops and PT Wiring Solutions 2/0 battery cables. And the starter is old but she's spinning plenty good.
 
Last edited:
You can measure ohms, but yes is they have swollen you can get a reading indicating good but not heat well.
I take a ohm reading of them all, then pull one or two to bench test.

Do you have a clear line in the ip return? 1/4" diameter a out 4" long. If not, get one on there. This is where it pays for itself- perfect diagnostics in 3 seconds. Like $2 from hardware store.
 
Will L. said:
Do you have a clear line in the ip return? 1/4" diameter a out 4" long. If not, get one on there. This is where it pays for itself- perfect diagnostics in 3 seconds. Like $2 from hardware store.
Click to expand...

I havn't yet but will as soon as I have a chance to dig in to it.
 
So, metering 1-3 volts at the plug connector. Yay.
I'm going to jumper the solenoid (ford style from peninsular timber) and see if she fires.
This setup still uses the stock controller for just the wiring connection if I remember right so it should just be the solenoid that's bad? But why low voltage instead of no voltage? Hmmm
 
Ok, found the issue, or as usual to make things more difficult, "issues".

#6 glow plug connector had come off somehow and was likely making direct ground contact, so got that worked out.

While I had the meter out, I decided to check the lift pump. Has full voltage but is only making the "chug" sound once about every 5 seconds. So it's "working" but I'm pretty sure it should be chugging constant.

It started raining harder so tomorrow I'll try to check the glow work I did and then look further into the IP.

YAY!
 
Despite being heckled about glow plugs heating the prechamber: I use an IR gun to check glow plugs in the engine. I am lazy like that sometimes. Stone cold engine and get a base temp on the heads where the prechamber is. Then glow for 30 seconds at a time and then take a reading on all 8 as close to the GP as possible. Cheat and read part of the outer glow plug itself if you can get an angle on the IR beam. I even read temps on the exposed head area and will get a temperature increase near good glows. Takes time and will lean on the batteries, but, faster than pulling them. Even faster than getting the two pigtails back on the plugs on the passenger side in the heat shield tubes...

A short will take fusible links out in the harness: I have no idea on how many fusible links a replacement harness may have, but, you could loose 4 plugs at once if a bigger one burns out.

Open the water drain with the lift pump going "chug". If it chugs quicker when the drain opens it's fine. The pump sees when the plunger moves from spring tension due to fuel moving/leaking/being used and will "chug" moving the plunger and re-compressing the spring. More fuel volume moving the faster the pump has to "chug" resetting the spring tension used to move the fuel volume.

Air in fuel - Park nose down. Start easier? You could have an air leak in the system letting it suck air when off causing a need to purge it before it starts. Generally a slow leak takes overnight to show up. Air leaks can include sticking injectors and IMO return lines.
 
I have the solenoid for the Peninsular timer system mounted in the engine bay. The PT Wiring Solutions glow plug harness is attached there so I could check for voltage right there. I had 1-3 volts which told me that something was sucking it out. I knew that I had a wire rubbing and possibly grounding on #6, it wasn't but that's how I found the loose connector. And yeah, I'm surprised that I didn't burn something up.

WarWagon said:
Open the water drain with the lift pump going "chug". If it chugs quicker when the drain opens it's fine. The pump sees when the plunger moves from spring tension due to fuel moving/leaking/being used and will "chug" moving the plunger and re-compressing the spring. More fuel volume moving the faster the pump has to "chug" resetting the spring tension used to move the fuel volume.
Click to expand...

Yup, you hit it right on the head there. I did some checking and found on the Walbro site... "FRB and FRD pumps will slow their cycling as the fuel flow rate drops." And I was just jumping it with the motor off so no flow.
I went out to start it today and, while it isn't starting as fast as in the summer months, it started up fine and ran great so It was just the glow plugs.
 
Resistance test steps NOT in the manual... :p
1) Remove brittle and toasted "well done" connector from glow plug.
2) Test glow plug resistance with probes on clean and rust free area. This means no oil buildup...
3) Spend an hour getting connector back on plug.
4) Glow plug heat shield falls apart.
5) Replace heat shield.
6) Spend an hour getting connector back on plug.
7) Observe what's left of the formally working brittle wire snap clean off when removing needle nose pliers.
8) Further notice when you remove the "wireless" connector again it now has the glow plug spade terminal in the connector.
9) Remove working glow plug that has a broken off connector terminal.
10) This may include remove head to remove frozen and snapped off glow plug...
 
WarWagon said:
Resistance test steps NOT in the manual... :p
1) Remove brittle and toasted "well done" connector from glow plug.
2) Test glow plug resistance with probes on clean and rust free area. This means no oil buildup...
3) Spend an hour getting connector back on plug.
4) Glow plug heat shield falls apart.
5) Replace heat shield.
6) Spend an hour getting connector back on plug.
7) Observe what's left of the formally working brittle wire snap clean off when removing needle nose pliers.
8) Further notice when you remove the "wireless" connector again it now has the glow plug spade terminal in the connector.
9) Remove working glow plug that has a broken off connector terminal.
10) This may include remove head to remove frozen and snapped off glow plug...
Click to expand...
Thanks, you're a big help. : )>

That's why it's nice to work with newer stuff!
 
WarWagon said:
Resistance test steps NOT in the manual... :p
1) Remove brittle and toasted "well done" connector from glow plug.
2) Test glow plug resistance with probes on clean and rust free area. This means no oil buildup...
3) Spend an hour getting connector back on plug.
4) Glow plug heat shield falls apart.
5) Replace heat shield.
6) Spend an hour getting connector back on plug.
7) Observe what's left of the formally working brittle wire snap clean off when removing needle nose pliers.
8) Further notice when you remove the "wireless" connector again it now has the glow plug spade terminal in the connector.
9) Remove working glow plug that has a broken off connector terminal.
10) This may include remove head to remove frozen and snapped off glow plug...
Click to expand...

Sounds like the voice of experience talking. . .
 
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