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Going mechanical with a Moose Omega Marine IP

n8in8or

n8in8or

I never met a project I didn’t like
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Location
Kalamazoo, MI
Ok, I've been talking about doing this for about 6 months and now things are finally starting to come together for this project. I figured I might as well start this thread sooner rather than later so I don't have to post all of the info on my swap at once.

My intent with this thread is to show before information regarding my current DS4 setup and then results after the swap.

In preparation for this swap I have been doing a few upgrades to air flow and air density so the engine can use the extra fuel I am going to be throwing at it. Here are the threads I have documented that work in:
HX40 swap
http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/threads/my-hx40-install.43856/
Water-to-air intercooler install
http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/threads/my-water-to-air-intercooler-install.44492/
Turbo side header fab and install
http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/threads/making-a-tube-header-for-the-turbo-side.44642/
Cold air intake fab and install
http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/threads/my-hx40-cold-air-intake.44283/
4" exhaust install
http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/threads/tahoe-4-exhaust-install-with-resonator-muffler.41853/
And then there's my engine build thread. This is a very long thread, but I tried to fairly comprehensively document the particular details of my build and the troubles & solutions that I encountered while doing it. The main take away from this in regards to the Moose install is that my engine is a 2004 Optimizer with reduced compression (~19:1), 1.6 ratio roller tip rockers, marine injectors set to 2500psi pop pressure and home-ported cylinder heads with custom machined precups.
http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/threads/a-military-rebuilt-6-5.43832/

As I am writing this, some of those upgrades still are not complete, so I will also be adding to those threads as I complete things.

I will never claim to be an expert on anything I am posting in here, I just want to try to fairly document the results of what my combination of parts does. The culmination of this installation will be testing at the local drag strip to see what kind of numbers I can put up. I will also relay my experiences daily driving this truck and using it to tow as well.

I'm really excited at the prospect of how this turns out and I can't wait to feel this thing really run!! (hopefully :D)
 
I was really inspired by @3500_6.5 's mechanical build thread so I decided to start seeing what I could find. I contacted Conestoga Diesel to find out details of their Moose pumps. The largest pump they had advertised for the 6.5 was their Bull Moose pump. I contacted them to find out what kind of output the Bull Moose had and got a response from Joel Shenk, the shop manager. He told me it could do 75-80mm^3@3750rpm. I was really looking for more than that based on 3500_6.5's results so I asked if they could do any of the tricks they do to their Ford IDI pumps to the GM6.5 pumps. He said he could and then told me that they actually had a Marine DB2 core in stock that they had been saving for a special build.....well if that didn't excite me! :woot: We talked more about what my engine was and goals were and we both agreed to move forward with that pump. My 2nd rebuild last fall delayed me doing this project, but I paid for the pump so they wouldn't sell that core to someone else and told them to take their time building it. I'm excited to report that they're shipping it to me today!!

I have had a really awesome experience with Conestoga Diesel and specifically Joel....he has always been very helpful in answering questions - really some of the best email responses I have ever received. Very professional and very thorough, both on the phone and via email. I couldn't have been happier with the service I received.

I hope to be doing the actual swap in the next month - hopefully by then I will have my other prep items done. I also need to buy my transmission controller from Leroy still...so the funds for that are also dictating the build.
 
Last week I found out from Leroy that he had installed one of his Raptor pumps on a DB2 pump and it was too much for a mechanical pump. So I was on the search for a low pressure diesel fuel regulator that wasn't too expensive. Surprisingly, such an animal was actually pretty hard to find! So finally I contacted Joel to see if he had a recommendation for a regulator to use. Boy am I glad I did!! He told me that he could set my pump up to accommodate the higher input pressure without affecting the advance curve and in fact in their testing they have found that they can actually get more output at higher rpm by running higher input pressure! So no additional expense for a secondary regulator AND more fuel output...WIN-WIN! One hurdle I did have to overcome though is figuring out a new underhood fuel filtering situation. With my current setup I can drop fuel pressure after the FFM even though I have done the FTB mod. It isn't a problem for the DS4 as I still have plenty of fuel flow at that flow level, but it wasn't going to cut it with the Moose.

Here is a video of my current fuel system operating:

I was struggling to come up with an economical filtering solution and once again Joel was able to help. Oh I forgot to mention: they have an extended 2-year warranty program that all you have to do is buy 2 Hastings fuel filters from them and they will extend the warranty past the standard 1-year warranty. I was already planning on doing that and they already had filters set aside to put on my Leroy Diesel filter base. After talking about fueling though, we decided to go with the Hastings filter on a new base I am going to install in the engine compartment and then he found a Wix filter with a water drain that will go on Leroy's base. I was so happy to get that info because I was having trouble finding it by searching filter company's websites. Once again, great service from Joel.

Pre-IP I will be using:
Hastings equivalent of the highly regarded Caterpillar 1R-0750 (Hastings FF1079)
Baldwin filter base FB1311

At Leroy's filter base I will be using:
Wix 33439

Joel has set the pump up to run with an input pressure of 25psi. Using that pressure here are the results he was able to achieve:
"I just finished calibrating your Omega Moose pump. As it sits it made just over 165cc/1000 strokes max and held 122cc/1000 strokes @ 3500 rpm. I played around with feed pressures and found 25 psi to be the best compromise between max fuel and maintaining a good timing curve."
That's a lot of fuel! Considering the DS4 should be putting out a max of somewhere around 80cc/1000 with my current tune, I had better be getting lots of air into this engine now! Considering I am still running only 16psi of boost and I still have my header to install, I feel hopeful I will be able to add enough air to make this work. If not, I will keep playing with turbo tuning and maybe even WMI. Eventually I would love to do a custom center mount turbo setup with an HE351VE, but that would mostly be a means to optimize drivability and fuel mileage, I feel hopeful I will be able to make this pump work with my more simple turbo strategy.
 
Once I receive the pump I will start working on a throttle cable bracket to fit the pump. I will post pictures of that process of course. Anything else I happen to think of in the meantime I will also post. More soon.
 
FINALLY taking the plunge to the wonderful world of the modified db2 pump!!! You will not be disappointed. Should be a hell of a runner when it's all said and done.

I'm sure you've mentioned this somewhere, probably multiple times, but where did you get your precups done? And have you been able to run them to notice any gains or pros/cons? I had planned on getting mine done but the guy that was supposed to do them wasn't returning calls at the time and I kind of just gave up.


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3500_6.5 said:
FINALLY taking the plunge to the wonderful world of the modified db2 pump!!! You will not be disappointed. Should be a hell of a runner when it's all said and done.

I'm sure you've mentioned this somewhere, probably multiple times, but where did you get your precups done? And have you been able to run them to notice any gains or pros/cons? I had planned on getting mine done but the guy that was supposed to do them wasn't returning calls at the time and I kind of just gave up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Yeah I'm excited to take the plunge! Thanks for writing up your results and being an inspiration.

I had my precups done by a guy Dennis knows. I think you're on the ATT Fbook page? I messaged him through that and he got it set up for me. It took 3 or 4 weeks to get it done if I recall correctly. I installed them at the same time I rebuilt/built-up the engine so I wasn't able to do any measurable before and after testing unfortunately. They sure had to be better than the Squares they were before though.....he machined them so they were just a hair over Diamond size. I have no complaints.
 
That's the guy I was trying to go through too. I had messaged Dennis and he had tried several times to contact the guy but said he had no luck. I don't think he ever gave me the guys contact info to try for myself. Maybe I'll check with him again and see. I don't think I'll have my engine up and running in 4 weeks, so that won't be an issue for me lol


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3500_6.5 said:
That's the guy I was trying to go through too. I had messaged Dennis and he had tried several times to contact the guy but said he had no luck. I don't think he ever gave me the guys contact info to try for myself. Maybe I'll check with him again and see. I don't think I'll have my engine up and running in 4 weeks, so that won't be an issue for me lol


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Yeah I'd try him again, it's a lot cheaper than buying Diamonds and safer than getting the Chinese Diamonds.
 
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