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girdle or mess with splayed mains

chevyCowboy

chevyCowboy

I might be crazy but i ain't dumb
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Location
Springfield Nebraska
just called kennedy diesel to get some info on the main stud and girdle kit they sell and not sure who i talked to but he told me the splayed mains would be better (and more money) and that the studs would probably do nothing to help prevent the one small hairline main web crack i have from getting worse.

i thought this had been discused before i seached and didnt find the info

any thoughts?
i really thought i read about this before maybe it was a differnt site
 
Unless you have the block all apart and want to spend some BIG cash on the splayed mains, I would do the Lock and stitch inserts (6) on the center outer bolts.

The girdles dont do that much IMHO

The inserts stops the cracking and also changes the loading in the bolt hole area.

Done several and they work sweet.


My DaHooooley has all 3 center mains done on the outer holes.

A good block with no cracks would be a good candidate for splayed caps.

The outer holes are plugged with a thread rod (red loctited in) the rods are machined flush with the block surface.

The new caps are installed and the mainline is remachined back to spec with an align hone job.

Once this is done the loading of the center outer main bolts is transfered into the pan rail area.

very good but $$$$$$$$$$$$$$


Missy
 
iv got mine all apart and if i could find someone around here who had the tooling for the lock-n-stich i would have it done but im not having much luck. and its pretty pricey for the tools (as you know Missy)
 
ya but for what it would cost me to drive to oregan i could buy the tooling but i have always wanted to get to the north west and id love to drive the alaska hyw. your home state Ak is on my list to go to soon. id love to hunt moose
 
Since your a welder why not grind a groove, heat it and then weld it and keep a little heat on it to let it cool slow ? I've fixed broken starter holes on 350 chevys this way.
 
i thought about that but its such a tiny crack that i dont see it to be worth it my hope was to put studs in and screw them down by hand lock tight them in and then tighten the main caps down with the nuts and not have the spreading affect of the bolts going into the block under tension?
 

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Dont even consider trying to weld any cracks on these blocks.

Been tried many times and the can of worms it opens is simply not a place you want to go.

The crack I see is right at the limits of being repairable with the Lock and stitch inserts.

The crack as to be within the area of the bolt hole (yours is barely) many times these will crack at the register cut, GAME OVER

The whole concept of the insert is that the threads are angled up steeply like the branches on a christmas tree.

As the bolt torque is applied the tension pulls the cracked area back together and also, due to the shape of the threads, there is not any spreading (wedging action).

The real problem with these blocks is that there is a lot of dynamic flexing going on during opperation.

In other words, the blocks is MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVING.

My gut feeling is that these blocks in mnay cases may have been too GREEN (Not cured well enough) leading to the cracking.

I have seen many cracks at the register fit that actually have spread open. This is due to the casting moving, shrinking and adjusting itself after several duty cycles.

Your block can likely be fixed quite well with the lock and stitch inserts.

A starter kit for the 6.5 is not terribly exspensive. It comes with a several inserts, the drill, tap, lock pins, special locking solution and instructions.

I went a tad farther and made up a spot facer to clean the finished insert up so it is slightly below the original surface (.001"-.002") to make absolutely sure that the caps fit properly.

I have a standard spot facer that is slightly larger than the inserts OD and I turned down an old main bolt to make a "Pilot" for the facer..

Just thread in the pilot, drop the spot facer on the pilot and run it gently with the 1/2" drill motor to clean the surface.

I use a special plate I made that bolts onto the pan rails and has 6 large holes to allow access to the outer main holes.

I then sit a mag drill on the plate, use a pilot to index the original threads of the hole then drill it out with the provided drill. (go 1/4" deeper than the oroginal hole to allow room to seat the insert. ) They dont tell you this in the instructions. Be sure to carefully debur the area of the hole that breaks out of the main web.

Also use a countersink and lightly chamfer the finished hole before you tap it.

Tbe inserts seat better this way.

MGW
 
well i finally find a guy here in omaha that has heard of them and has the tooling but he will not do it on a mainweb said that it is not a good fix and that taking material aways from the main web will only make things worse and that my best bet would be to get a new block :eek::mad2::mad2:
well im not ganna get a new block and iv spent enough money allready so i dont think im ganna buy the tooling for the locknstich so..... i say to hell with i think im ganna put some studs in it and call it good. what the worst that could happen:mad2: the crack gets bigger and the crank snapps.... well if that happens i guess ill build another or maybe ill just do a 4bt swap but for know i want my truck back.

ok im done ranting now:D
 
as an after thought im going to put the girdle on as well it seems to me that if crack dont get bigger tighting the bolt down then the girlde will tie all 3 main webs together making them that much harder to twist and inorder for the crank to snap something has to twisit and flex and im just ganna take my chances on the girdle holding it all together
 
one of these diesel forums (dieselplace, page, or here) had a thread about splayed mains vs. girdle. There were good arguments on why one was better than the other and why each one was a poor choice. I do not believe it ever came to a consensus. If I have time (doubtful) I will try to look for it and post a link.
 
chevyCowboy said:
as an after thought im going to put the girdle on as well it seems to me that if crack dont get bigger tighting the bolt down then the girlde will tie all 3 main webs together making them that much harder to twist and inorder for the crank to snap something has to twisit and flex and im just ganna take my chances on the girdle holding it all together
Click to expand...

That's what I would do. There's probably a lot of people driving around with cracked blocks and they don't even Know it.
 
that was my exact thought cause as much problems as i had trying to find a crack free block (and i thought this one was) its seeming to be damn near impossible
 
You asked for thoughts on this, so here are mine. I wouldn't use the girdle. From what I have read, its powder coated. Anyone that designs a powder coated piece of steel (and most likely mild steel) as part of a torqued assembly such as a main bearing cap doesn't know what they are doing in my book. Powder is soft, what do you think it will do over time all clamped together? ARP goes to great lengths to make their washers hard and as flat as possible, for good reason. I cannot see that the girdle is anywhere near as hard or as flat as a good washer, so I can't see how it should be part of a precision torqued assembly. That and I have reservations it is really strong enough to do much. But I probably wouldn't build up a cracked block to begin with, so take it for what its worth.
 
Who said they are powder coated ? If they are I'll continue to make my own girdles. I think the girdle helps,as my bottom end hasn't come apart at 60 psi boost and it has stock main bolts with a 1/8 inch angle iron for a girdle. I would not splay the mains simply because of cost.
 
6.2 turbo said:
Who said they are powder coated ? If they are I'll continue to make my own girdles.
Click to expand...

The OP referenced Kennedy, who sells DSG Girdles. DSG's website states "The kit contains a CNC-machined, powder coated set of girdles to tie the three middle caps together."

So I would say the manufacturer says they are. If you look at the picture, it looks like the entire girdle is black.
 
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