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fuel shut off solenoid diagnosis

The DB2 has 2 solenoids in/under the top cover. When you are testing a DB2 after taking it apart and you test the solenoids and get "solenoid wasn't clicking," STOP!!!

You likely have the metering valve jammed in the full fuel position without a click. The governor is helpless to move the fuel metering valve from full fuel. Hit the starter and you have instant runaway engine requiring a quick action to cut off intake air with a board, etc. Watch fingers and rags that will remove fingers and ruin engine.

I suggest you have a board and a plan to cut off intake air if your engine runs away. Yes, you have to have a place in the intake to do this usually requiring some of the intake removed. For testing the turbo doesn't need to boost the engine so the small intake hole on the upper intake is a good place or drop a board on the lower intake with the upper removed. Practice it a couple times without the engine running and make sure you are clearing moving parts. This way when the engine is screaming you can follow the plan and quickly cut the air off no matter what is making the floor slick and running down your pants. :yuck:

Let me point you to a good article of how it works because they, Ray T. Bohacz, has a good pic of what I am about to describe. A good read, but, How it works is not how to put it together and how to troubleshoot it.
http://www.trucktrend.com/how-to/expert-advice/0809dp-stanadyne-db2-injection-pump/

View attachment 48655

Here is a pic of a long ago dead IP of mine:

View attachment 48654

Lets start with the big black solenoid in the upper left of the picture. This is the shut off solenoid we care about. (The small solenoid in the lower left top cover is the cold advance.) Lets test it as we have the top cover off.

You already noticed it shocked you. I am not sure if there is a suppression diode built in at all on the solenoid or if it is elsewhere in the harness. My tests were inconclusive this AM. (I now smell like diesel fuel this AM from what leaked out of my surplus pump.) Regardless: Any coil of wire will generate a larger voltage from the magnetic field collapsing. For example the primary side of an ignition coil will generate up to -300V when the points stop the +12v current. If you used a suppression diode you wouldn't get a quick collapse of the field and no 20,000 volt spark on the secondary side. Thus to save the points from sparking/arcing they use a capacitor, aka condenser for the old school folks. The capacitor allows a sudden stop of the current where the diode wouldn't. So for non-ignition coils that are used in solenoids a suppression diode is used esp. for relay coils. The purpose is to save the switches that control them let alone not shock you. Hook the battery up backwards to test and the diode releases it's magic smoke instantly becoming a useless work of art.

So with 12v hooked up the solenoid should move from closed and allow the metering valve to be controlled by the governor. The spring will move it back to full closed with 12v removed. The fuel solenoid is the terminal furthermost toward the front of the engine with the pink wire on it. If it doesn't move at all you have a bad spring, something like debris or rust jamming it, or shorted solenoid windings making a weak magnetic field.

Install of the top cover:
When installing the top cover on the pump you want to offset the cover as far forward on the engine as you can limited by the shut off solenoid tang hitting the engine front inside of the pump housing - the bolts WILL NOT go in! So slide the cover all the way down and them being careful of the gasket slide it backwards till the bolt holes line up. This action brings the solenoid tang in contact with the governor and metering valve control assembly and closes the metering valve that spring tension is holding wide open to obtain 650 RPM from the current 0 RPM. WITHOUT REMOVING PRESSURE ON THE TOP COVER: Run the bolts down. (Otherwise spring tension holding the metering valve closed will pop the top cover up and allow the solenoid tang to jump over the assembly - then you bolt it down locking the metering valve at full fuel.) With all three bolts in apply 12v to the solenoids one at a time. If you don't get clicks "STOP!" DO NOT ATTEMPT TO START THE ENGINE! Figure out why you don't have a clicking sound and fix including re-do of the top cover assembly steps.

The cold advance solenoid is worth mentioning. To prime the fuel system it's faster to have this "off" by disconnecting the temperature switch on the coolant T-Stat crossover. The cold advance increases housing pressure to advance timing - it does this by restricting fuel flow. As we are dealing with air and fuel flow we want flow not compressed air. You start to get white smoke you can hook it back up unless you keep stalling with it hooked up.

When you are ready to start the engine make sure you have a good friend helping crank it or operating the air shut off board. Whoever has the bigger brass balls should be running the air shut off board. SMOKE, runaway engine noise, and legitimate fear of it going "BOOM!" have to be overcome to drop the air shut off effectively and safely as possible. :D

This said the next step is to see if the IP locked up and broke the driveshaft. With a air shut off in place and holding the fuel metering valve closed rotate the engine by hand in it's normal rotation. A diesel can run backwards so let's not give it the option. You are looking down in the pump to see if the governor assembly rotates when the engine is slowly turned by hand.

Is this different than my 89 was? I remember messing with the fuel shut off solenoid, but I thought it looked more like the solenoids on all of the 6.5's I have now. It's very possible, I just do not remember.

The only problem I ever remember having with the fuel shut off solenoid on the 89, was a pink wire issue a few times.

Thanks for a very good reply
 
The DB2 has 2 solenoids in/under the top cover. When you are testing a DB2 after taking it apart and you test the solenoids and get "solenoid wasn't clicking," STOP!!!

You likely have the metering valve jammed in the full fuel position without a click. The governor is helpless to move the fuel metering valve from full fuel. Hit the starter and you have instant runaway engine requiring a quick action to cut off intake air with a board, etc. Watch fingers and rags that will remove fingers and ruin engine.

I suggest you have a board and a plan to cut off intake air if your engine runs away. Yes, you have to have a place in the intake to do this usually requiring some of the intake removed. For testing the turbo doesn't need to boost the engine so the small intake hole on the upper intake is a good place or drop a board on the lower intake with the upper removed. Practice it a couple times without the engine running and make sure you are clearing moving parts. This way when the engine is screaming you can follow the plan and quickly cut the air off no matter what is making the floor slick and running down your pants. :yuck:

Let me point you to a good article of how it works because they, Ray T. Bohacz, has a good pic of what I am about to describe. A good read, but, How it works is not how to put it together and how to troubleshoot it.
http://www.trucktrend.com/how-to/expert-advice/0809dp-stanadyne-db2-injection-pump/

View attachment 48655

Here is a pic of a long ago dead IP of mine:

View attachment 48654

Lets start with the big black solenoid in the upper left of the picture. This is the shut off solenoid we care about. (The small solenoid in the lower left top cover is the cold advance.) Lets test it as we have the top cover off.

You already noticed it shocked you. I am not sure if there is a suppression diode built in at all on the solenoid or if it is elsewhere in the harness. My tests were inconclusive this AM. (I now smell like diesel fuel this AM from what leaked out of my surplus pump.) Regardless: Any coil of wire will generate a larger voltage from the magnetic field collapsing. For example the primary side of an ignition coil will generate up to -300V when the points stop the +12v current. If you used a suppression diode you wouldn't get a quick collapse of the field and no 20,000 volt spark on the secondary side. Thus to save the points from sparking/arcing they use a capacitor, aka condenser for the old school folks. The capacitor allows a sudden stop of the current where the diode wouldn't. So for non-ignition coils that are used in solenoids a suppression diode is used esp. for relay coils. The purpose is to save the switches that control them let alone not shock you. Hook the battery up backwards to test and the diode releases it's magic smoke instantly becoming a useless work of art.

So with 12v hooked up the solenoid should move from closed and allow the metering valve to be controlled by the governor. The spring will move it back to full closed with 12v removed. The fuel solenoid is the terminal furthermost toward the front of the engine with the pink wire on it. If it doesn't move at all you have a bad spring, something like debris or rust jamming it, or shorted solenoid windings making a weak magnetic field.

Install of the top cover:
When installing the top cover on the pump you want to offset the cover as far forward on the engine as you can limited by the shut off solenoid tang hitting the engine front inside of the pump housing - the bolts WILL NOT go in! So slide the cover all the way down and them being careful of the gasket slide it backwards till the bolt holes line up. This action brings the solenoid tang in contact with the governor and metering valve control assembly and closes the metering valve that spring tension is holding wide open to obtain 650 RPM from the current 0 RPM. WITHOUT REMOVING PRESSURE ON THE TOP COVER: Run the bolts down. (Otherwise spring tension holding the metering valve closed will pop the top cover up and allow the solenoid tang to jump over the assembly - then you bolt it down locking the metering valve at full fuel.) With all three bolts in apply 12v to the solenoids one at a time. If you don't get clicks "STOP!" DO NOT ATTEMPT TO START THE ENGINE! Figure out why you don't have a clicking sound and fix including re-do of the top cover assembly steps.

The cold advance solenoid is worth mentioning. To prime the fuel system it's faster to have this "off" by disconnecting the temperature switch on the coolant T-Stat crossover. The cold advance increases housing pressure to advance timing - it does this by restricting fuel flow. As we are dealing with air and fuel flow we want flow not compressed air. You start to get white smoke you can hook it back up unless you keep stalling with it hooked up.

When you are ready to start the engine make sure you have a good friend helping crank it or operating the air shut off board. Whoever has the bigger brass balls should be running the air shut off board. SMOKE, runaway engine noise, and legitimate fear of it going "BOOM!" have to be overcome to drop the air shut off effectively and safely as possible. :D

This said the next step is to see if the IP locked up and broke the driveshaft. With a air shut off in place and holding the fuel metering valve closed rotate the engine by hand in it's normal rotation. A diesel can run backwards so let's not give it the option. You are looking down in the pump to see if the governor assembly rotates when the engine is slowly turned by hand.
that is GREAT info. thanks for getting dirty and taking the time to post this.
installing the top cover correctly with the solenoid is tricky and i will use your advice and precautions tomorrow when i get back on it.
i've already got the truck running without the solenoid installed so i know the IP is good.
unfortunately, i will be by myself so i will have to have the big brass. intake and turbo are installed so i will use the turbo inlet to kill it if i need to by cutting something bigger than the inlet to slide in place.
here's what came in yesterday, it didn't show up on the other post i made, that i will put in tomorrow:
 
Is this different than my 89 was? I remember messing with the fuel shut off solenoid, but I thought it looked more like the solenoids on all of the 6.5's I have now. It's very possible, I just do not remember.

The only problem I ever remember having with the fuel shut off solenoid on the 89, was a pink wire issue a few times.

Thanks for a very good reply

Pink wire reversed with Green wire and engine shuts off when it warmed up... :rolleyes:

The DB2 is similar from Tractors/Olds 5.7 through the 1993 DB2 excluding later Military, Generator and Marine production. For example I can and do use a 1993 pump solenoid cover on a 1985 DB2 pump. The DS4 has a different arrangement including fuel inlet location. Not sure if a 5.7 Pump cover would fit a 6.2. Military is 24v so I need 12v and got it quick and dirty by dropping the 1993 6.5 pump cover on the 1985 6.2 pump.

The DS4 looks like this with a red line on the fuel stop solenoid.

DS4.jpg
 
not good news, i connected the solenoid correctly, got the click, but truck wouldn't start. the only thing that was different from yesterday (when it ran,) was the solenoid. must be in wrong is all i can figure. i didn't check for fuel out return.
so here i am: at a crossroad. do i take the right side and try to fig
ure out the solenoid.
or take the left side and connect one of these to the fuel return.......

info: $28.50
1/4" Stainless Steel Electric Solenoid Valve 12VDC Normally Closed VITON
Suitable for use with diesel fuel.
N/C electric solenoid valve is constructed with a durable brass body, two-way inlet and outlet ports with 1/4" female connections, heat and oil resistant Viton seals.
Valve operates from 0 PSI to a maximum pressure for oil: 0 to 72 PSI.

 
mounted the external solenoid and it works great! used the 24v solenoid that came in it to seal all the holes, gutted it and no leaks at all. there is a 2 second continue to run after key is turned off then it shuts off. perfect.
have a new trans pan and gasket coming in.
plan on looking at the fuel tank next to determine if i should drop it or run it as is.
hope to have a victory ride soon.
 
I'm having the high idle runaway at this very moment......twice now I think i got how cover reinstalls my question is how far does that assembly move going into shutoff mine looks like about 5/8" to 3/4" sound right? I gots no board I just shut fuel supply off on the delivery side of primer pump John Deere has a handy 1/4 turn valve there 15 to 20 seconds later panic is over
 
I'm having the high idle runaway at this very moment......twice now I think i got how cover reinstalls my question is how far does that assembly move going into shutoff mine looks like about 5/8" to 3/4" sound right? I gots no board I just shut fuel supply off on the delivery side of primer pump John Deere has a handy 1/4 turn valve there 15 to 20 seconds later panic is over
What You is working on Brink ?
 
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