-
Welcome to The Truck Stop! We see you haven't REGISTERED yet.
Your truck knowledge is missing!
- Registration is FREE , all we need is your birthday and email. (We don't share ANY data with ANYONE)
- We have tons of knowledge here for your diesel truck!
- Post your own topics and reply to existing threads to help others out!
- NO ADS! The site is fully functional and ad free!
Problems registering? Click here to contact us!
Already registered, but need a PASSWORD RESET? CLICK HERE TO RESET YOUR PASSWORD!
FRC10 or Raptor
- Thread starter 625fireman
- Start date
greenmeanh1
Member
I almost bought the frb5. I ended up going with the Rator 150gpm pump and just got it in the mail so its not installed yet.
Removed non supporting vendor link to Extreme Diesel
I had heard a couple complaints on the frb5 doing research and found no complaints about the raptor so i went with the raptor. I am going to preset the Raptor for 16psi and then use a variable dash controlled PWM to dial down the motor speed of the raptor to fine tune the pressures. I will use an AUBER programmable gauge to read the fuel pressure from inside the cab using a 3 bar sensor on the FM
http://www.auberins.com/AUBER1812XA-instruction1-3.pdf
Removed non supporting vendor link to Extreme Diesel
I had heard a couple complaints on the frb5 doing research and found no complaints about the raptor so i went with the raptor. I am going to preset the Raptor for 16psi and then use a variable dash controlled PWM to dial down the motor speed of the raptor to fine tune the pressures. I will use an AUBER programmable gauge to read the fuel pressure from inside the cab using a 3 bar sensor on the FM
http://www.auberins.com/AUBER1812XA-instruction1-3.pdf
Last edited by a moderator:
Will L.
Well-Known Member
Where did you fit it? Any prefilter?
You will have a nice system. FWIW, I have the Raptor 100 in kit form available on my site and can get most any of the PureFlow products as well.
All lift pumps have a specific life. Rattling away, but, no one's home for the stock pumps. Leaking out the wires, electronics failures. Brush failures for the rotary pumps and seal failures. Plain old wear and slow speed or lockup gets em.
Again the two pumps listed have a better life than the stock pump esp on ANY biodiesel. Price/performance/warranty become a comparison tool over stock pumps. Most of the pumps I have burned out/ruined were under $150.00. Keep in mind buggy fuel also ruined an ENTIRE injection system including the fuel tank, IP, and injectors with the Walbro.
The comp 140 Mallory Alcohol/Methanol Applications pump runs $250 and lost a seal under warranty. (Correction to the above listed Mallory of mine?) It is a sledgehammer thrown at a problem of a kinked hose I couldn't find at the time. I would not have paid that much for a lift pump otherwise. Simply because when I really needed lift pumps I didn't have that much cash on hand or time to wait for it to arrive.
I am disappointed to read about the electrical failures in the Walbro's. For the money I know they are the best available. For the ultimate lift pump you are spending 2x or more money. Normally something I wouldn't do, but, I have been forced to because I am tired of taking diesel baths changing the damn things. For the record I would have replaced the Walbro if I found the kinked fuel line rather than go more expensive.
The lift pump upgrade should be part of a complete breakfast with a tank sock delete, prefilter/water separator (The Walbro screen counts.) and new bio compatible hoses. The water separator WILL save your injection system if you get wet fuel as the GM filter won't stop enough water. The 1995 injection system survived the bad fuel only because it has a CAT water separator as a prefilter.
I measured lift pump life in a few short months tops including a Carter rotary vane unit and the Mallory. (550 miles a weekday.) This was even before I got the bugs in the fuel. The Walbro's have given me years of service.
Again the two pumps listed have a better life than the stock pump esp on ANY biodiesel. Price/performance/warranty become a comparison tool over stock pumps. Most of the pumps I have burned out/ruined were under $150.00. Keep in mind buggy fuel also ruined an ENTIRE injection system including the fuel tank, IP, and injectors with the Walbro.
The comp 140 Mallory Alcohol/Methanol Applications pump runs $250 and lost a seal under warranty. (Correction to the above listed Mallory of mine?) It is a sledgehammer thrown at a problem of a kinked hose I couldn't find at the time. I would not have paid that much for a lift pump otherwise. Simply because when I really needed lift pumps I didn't have that much cash on hand or time to wait for it to arrive.
I am disappointed to read about the electrical failures in the Walbro's. For the money I know they are the best available. For the ultimate lift pump you are spending 2x or more money. Normally something I wouldn't do, but, I have been forced to because I am tired of taking diesel baths changing the damn things. For the record I would have replaced the Walbro if I found the kinked fuel line rather than go more expensive.
The lift pump upgrade should be part of a complete breakfast with a tank sock delete, prefilter/water separator (The Walbro screen counts.) and new bio compatible hoses. The water separator WILL save your injection system if you get wet fuel as the GM filter won't stop enough water. The 1995 injection system survived the bad fuel only because it has a CAT water separator as a prefilter.
I measured lift pump life in a few short months tops including a Carter rotary vane unit and the Mallory. (550 miles a weekday.) This was even before I got the bugs in the fuel. The Walbro's have given me years of service.
HighSierra86
Active Member
Ive had the FRB5 on two trucks and noticed the same low pressures that was mentioned above. My stock AcDelco pump actually read higher pressures.
I have sinced switched to the FRC-10 over a year and 8K miles ago. Pressures are excellent, but I am already starting to see the intermitent electronic failure of the pump. I have an in-cab pressure guage, but the silence from the pump gives it away first. I have a spare pump in the truck as I know I cant just run down to NAPA and buy one if it fails.
In my opinion these pumps arent much better then the failure prone OEM pumps. I will be looking at other options once my spare is gone.
-Nick
I have sinced switched to the FRC-10 over a year and 8K miles ago. Pressures are excellent, but I am already starting to see the intermitent electronic failure of the pump. I have an in-cab pressure guage, but the silence from the pump gives it away first. I have a spare pump in the truck as I know I cant just run down to NAPA and buy one if it fails.
In my opinion these pumps arent much better then the failure prone OEM pumps. I will be looking at other options once my spare is gone.
-Nick
There seems to be a trend developing. I dont know, but it seems after the Sunami in Japan is when the failures started showing up (about 9-12 months after). Anything before then was solid and no reports of failure.
Still though the rate of failed FRC10's is low (so far) compaird to the amount they sell.
If the issues continue to be a problem I'll also be on the hunt for a new pump.
Im going to tell Walbro of this to see what they say.
Still though the rate of failed FRC10's is low (so far) compaird to the amount they sell.
If the issues continue to be a problem I'll also be on the hunt for a new pump.
Im going to tell Walbro of this to see what they say.
- Staff
- #28
Wish you luck, They still have not contacted me back. :mad2:
I guess I should call again, and again, and again. Well you get the point.
Call Luis @ (989)872-7322 Walbro aftermarket. Im sure if they get enough feedback......blah blah......
- Staff
- #30
I will call him on Monday, thanks!
greenmeanh1
Member
I am curious to know more about the electronic failure aspects of the walboro pumps. Seems the frb and the frc both have electronics in them to some degree although i have never seen the insides of one. I would be happy to disect a broken one if i had one. Im generally pretty good at that kind of stuff. Years ago i took apart several PMDs to map the circuit and figure out what was wrong with them. Unbelievable what i found. I suspect when electronics failures happen its because of poor design either capacitively or inductively which would include heat i suppose. Depending on the type of PCB and the solder used i can imagine that vibration, high temps, pooling and oxidized solder, joints that become cold will be common failures in turn leading to TTL logic and componet failures.. In the music biz i deal with a ton of electronics that has similar issues and the stuff all dies for the same reasons!!
greenmeanh1
Member
Hey will i just read your question.
I am removing my pre filter. I had installed it in the hope of saving the stock pumps on a hunch. Didn't work as the last pump lasted less than 3k miles. The raptor has a pre screen that will get any thing big and i trust the downstream filters will do the job for the rest. Plus not a whole lot of room for the pre filter anyway in the Hummer.
I have not installed yet. Tonight is the night LOL!!
I am installing on the bottom of the widow frame cross bar just beside the hood lock mechanism. I built a decent vibration isolation mount and hanger that balances the weight of the pump on the hanger evenly. There is a hole already in the cross beam that is used for a cable and window washer tube retainer clamp and i will drill anther hole about 2.5 inches to the right of that one. The pump will hang there facing forward so it can be adjusted and maintained without removal. The PWM controller and relay box will bolt to the visable FM mounting bolt and sit upright just in front of the FM where the big hole is so to speak. The line from the output of the Raptor is right where the checkvaleve line wants to naturaly be and will hook up on a barb. The supply side hooks to the stock tube nut. I managed this by recycling a old lift pump and one of the female fittings. I basicly snapped it off with a wrench and bored out the end for a 1/4 npt pipe thread to 3/8 barb. I then drilled out the inside to match the tube nut flare.
I am removing my pre filter. I had installed it in the hope of saving the stock pumps on a hunch. Didn't work as the last pump lasted less than 3k miles. The raptor has a pre screen that will get any thing big and i trust the downstream filters will do the job for the rest. Plus not a whole lot of room for the pre filter anyway in the Hummer.
I have not installed yet. Tonight is the night LOL!!
I am installing on the bottom of the widow frame cross bar just beside the hood lock mechanism. I built a decent vibration isolation mount and hanger that balances the weight of the pump on the hanger evenly. There is a hole already in the cross beam that is used for a cable and window washer tube retainer clamp and i will drill anther hole about 2.5 inches to the right of that one. The pump will hang there facing forward so it can be adjusted and maintained without removal. The PWM controller and relay box will bolt to the visable FM mounting bolt and sit upright just in front of the FM where the big hole is so to speak. The line from the output of the Raptor is right where the checkvaleve line wants to naturaly be and will hook up on a barb. The supply side hooks to the stock tube nut. I managed this by recycling a old lift pump and one of the female fittings. I basicly snapped it off with a wrench and bored out the end for a 1/4 npt pipe thread to 3/8 barb. I then drilled out the inside to match the tube nut flare.
Attachments
Last edited:
Will L.
Well-Known Member
If you can, post a pic when done. I am wondering about the future. i only just changed my lp 1 st time but had it out probably 6 times. These pickup guys don't know how easy they have it- 5 lbs bag to hold 10 lbs of
great white
Well-Known Member
great white
Well-Known Member
Without trying to start a whole "prefilter argument" I will say that for the 3 years I've been running my raptor 100 I've used a pre-filter.
It's not a small unit and I keep it no "finer" than 30 microns. My first filter lasted the three years without restriction and I changed it out mainly because the body had become rusty from exposure.
The water separation properties and the clear fuel bowl are also pluses. The fact that my pre-filter head choice incorporates fuel warming (return fuel) for winter running and some protection against primary filter waxing without running the oem warmer is just bonus.
My pump has never missed a beat and the "crud" that would show up in the base of my primary filter bowl is no longer there. The filter still turns black by change time, but that's a function of the nature of the diesel and the bits of "coke" that's present in it.
For system health and longevity, I believe a decent sized pre-filter is beneficial and serves a purpose.
YMMV...
It's not a small unit and I keep it no "finer" than 30 microns. My first filter lasted the three years without restriction and I changed it out mainly because the body had become rusty from exposure.
The water separation properties and the clear fuel bowl are also pluses. The fact that my pre-filter head choice incorporates fuel warming (return fuel) for winter running and some protection against primary filter waxing without running the oem warmer is just bonus.
My pump has never missed a beat and the "crud" that would show up in the base of my primary filter bowl is no longer there. The filter still turns black by change time, but that's a function of the nature of the diesel and the bits of "coke" that's present in it.
For system health and longevity, I believe a decent sized pre-filter is beneficial and serves a purpose.
YMMV...
greenmeanh1
Member
Capacitively the PMD unit is too small to handle the loads and the high and low sides conflict in this regard.
The voltage regulation in the PMD is about as bad a design as you could possibly make it with uncontrolled voltage spikes out of the range of the LM285 browning it out.
The Darlington Emiiter type TO-3 transistors MJ15004g are not specified for this type of mounting inside an enclosed and potted case. The heat stress causes small cracks in the potting where it meets the plastic allow moisture to be sucked in the sides. There are two .5 ohm power resistors that get hot and get this moisture and the solder joints rot out. The front side of the two side PCB has all the logic chips, 5 in total including the LM285 regulator. They do not like moisture or heat.
Without getting into the research end of this the engineers screwed up the revision 2 design with dead traces everywhere and its clear they were changing and fixing the design on the fly.
The following picture is a revision 2 PMD with a two sided PCB. I am not at liberty to share the details of the componets but the basics are there to plot the mistakes. Although a shiity design for a fuel driver ,blown up hanging on the wall it makes a nice picture.
Attachments
great white
Well-Known Member
greenmeanh1
Member
I should add the Raptor and the PWM are installed and working. I only did a 30 miles road test but tonight i am taking it out on a 700 mile round trip to ottawa and back. If any bugs in the install they should present over this trip. I removed the prefilter i was using. It was clean. I still have a tank sock. I removed the secondary filter in the Fuel Manager and cut out the windows and removed the heater spring when i did the FTB. I nstalled a glass viewer and filter up near the IP so between the 4 filters in the system, i should be good.
Install went smooth except for a return line in the way.
Install went smooth except for a return line in the way.
