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Feed The Beast - What have you guys seen

Nick Gustafson

Nick Gustafson

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North Windham, Connecticut
So, I've gone and purchased everything that I need for FTB on my truck. To those of you who are running it on a ds4 pump, what benefits have you seen, and what should I expect to see? I'm running a Heath Max-E-Tork tune, Walbro FRC-10 from Leroy Diesel, stock GM-4 set to 15psi, open exhaust, and K47 box. I'll be upgrading to an HX35 at the same time that I do this, and I'm getting custom burned tunes at some point for the truck
 
I think you should notice more of a difference having the better LP, especially once you get the HX on there. I did the FTB with the stock LP and the truck seemed more responsive but I watched fuel pressure dive once I got on the throttle.


This is what my stock LP pressure looked like just idling off a light. Not good at all.
 
Am sure that a dyno will show different numbers of stock versus OE plumbing, but not so sure that the seat of the pants will really feel it.

The only thing I expected out of a FTB setup was to avoid running lean and heating up the engine when asking for peak power (WOT). Aside from avoiding lean conditions, it should give better response all the way through the power curve as the motor will not run out of fuel.

Naturally, the better experts will correct me if necessary.
 
I've already done some prevention to running lean. I run a 3 BAR MAP sensor, yes I know that it keeps from over boosting, but it also allows for more fuel than stock. Also, the tune and upgraded LP help with fuel flow too. But as you said, dyno numbers tell all, so once I get everything done on the truck, it's hitting the dyno
 
There is some principle we learned about in advanced chemistry that I can't remember, but it basically states that as a fluid passes by another fluid, there is a tendency for it to attract the other fluid and pull it with it. So say you have a T and are measuring fluid pressure through the T. Gauge on one side. Flow through the other two ports. As fluid is passing through the T, it will pull the fluid going to the gauge away from the gauge, so it would read lower fuel pressure than what is actually there. It is why the pressure gauge probably drops so dramatically when you get on it but not at idle. I doubt there is any drop in fuel pressure going to the motor. That is why you want to monitor pressure closest to where it is going into the pump. GC machines use this principle to inject samples into the machine after going through the autoloader. Pretty handy.
 
SS FORCE said:
I think you should notice more of a difference having the better LP, especially once you get the HX on there. I did the FTB with the stock LP and the truck seemed more responsive but I watched fuel pressure dive once I got on the throttle.
Click to expand...

Man I miss the exhaust note that truck made...I know you do too but the new truck makes up for it. Do you have a picture of how you had the Fuel Pressure Sender tapped into the fuel line? It would be good to see what you've got and compare it to what 6.5L is referring to below.

6.5L said:
There is some principle we learned about in advanced chemistry that I can't remember, but it basically states that as a fluid passes by another fluid, there is a tendency for it to attract the other fluid and pull it with it. So say you have a T and are measuring fluid pressure through the T. Gauge on one side. Flow through the other two ports. As fluid is passing through the T, it will pull the fluid going to the gauge away from the gauge, so it would read lower fuel pressure than what is actually there. It is why the pressure gauge probably drops so dramatically when you get on it but not at idle. I doubt there is any drop in fuel pressure going to the motor. That is why you want to monitor pressure closest to where it is going into the pump. GC machines use this principle to inject samples into the machine after going through the autoloader. Pretty handy.
Click to expand...

For those like me who are more visual, can you post a picture of the "T" you're referencing? I'm thinking the verbiage indicates the fuel should make a 90* at the "T" with the gauge sender receiving the fuel 'head on.' Like I said, I'm more visual.

Here's a shot of what I've tried in the past and the reading just danced between 9-12 LBS.
2014 Fuel Pressure Juncture-s.jpg

Here's the new set up but I haven't run it to see how pressures behave as the truck is still off-line.
20150708 New Fuel Line-Sender 3-s.jpg
 
6.5L said:
There is some principle we learned about in advanced chemistry that I can't remember, but it basically states that as a fluid passes by another fluid, there is a tendency for it to attract the other fluid and pull it with it.
Click to expand...

Sounds like the venturi effect to me . . . Maybe it has a different name when applying it to liquids versus gas.
 
6.5L said:
There is some principle we learned about in advanced chemistry that I can't remember, but it basically states that as a fluid passes by another fluid, there is a tendency for it to attract the other fluid and pull it with it. So say you have a T and are measuring fluid pressure through the T. Gauge on one side. Flow through the other two ports. As fluid is passing through the T, it will pull the fluid going to the gauge away from the gauge, so it would read lower fuel pressure than what is actually there. It is why the pressure gauge probably drops so dramatically when you get on it but not at idle. I doubt there is any drop in fuel pressure going to the motor. That is why you want to monitor pressure closest to where it is going into the pump. GC machines use this principle to inject samples into the machine after going through the autoloader. Pretty handy.
Click to expand...
I have an unrelated question not meant to jack thread, didn't have a quick spool valve installed on your 6.5td how has it performed for you?
 
On the lower fuel pressure with stock LP and larger fuel line, you should see a slight drop in pressure compared to with the smaller fuel line. That means your gauge is accurate.

Think if you use a 5/8" Garden hose how fast you can fill up a 5 gallon bucket and how far the water will spray out of the hose. Now if you change that hose to a 3/4" garden hose, The bucket will fill up faster because of the increase in volume. But the larger holes will not spray the water as far because there is a decrease in pressure.
Imagine if you used a 6" hose. The water would barely fall out in the end, but with no restriction the water would fill the bucket amazingly fast. It's back to that school book to remember the name of the correlation, I'm to sleepy to remember that name right now. Haha
 
Some effect like surface tension i would think. Makes since to me like how rain drops seem to magnetically attract to each other.
 
I did it on my 94. First i installed a Cummins Carter LP, then later on i did the FTB mod. I cant say i noticed a thing, just a warm fuzzy feeling.. My truck setup was very similar to yours.

Your difference will be more from the turbo swap and chip, as long as your LP was fully functional performing wise before the swap.
 
Paveltolz said:
Man I miss the exhaust note that truck made...I know you do too but the new truck makes up for it. Do you have a picture of how you had the Fuel Pressure Sender tapped into the fuel line? It would be good to see what you've got and compare it to what 6.5L is referring to below.



For those like me who are more visual, can you post a picture of the "T" you're referencing? I'm thinking the verbiage indicates the fuel should make a 90* at the "T" with the gauge sender receiving the fuel 'head on.' Like I said, I'm more visual.
Click to expand...

I looked through everything I had and must have deleted it. I ran my pressure sensor the way you did in your second picture Paul with the fuel flowing straight through and the sensor at the 90 degree to fuel flow. Should have documented all my projects better.
 
For low speed flow Tee's mess up pressure comparisons if they are a restriction to flow from cross section difference. Venturi explains how velocity increase at a necked down section will decrease pressure compared to larger cross section. Its related to conservation of flow energy (Bernoulli equation) the pressure in the neck is lower than wider section because it increased velocity. If I remember right its similar to how an airplane wing works. Air has to go farther over a curved wing top and thus faster vs the underside of wing a straighter path so it has less pressure on top creating lift.

For comparative readings either tee setup should work looking at the same place inline but if you compare different cross section of flow it gets ambiguous during flow as pressure will probably be different and vary with velocity differences. Pressure vs flow to me sometimes gets to be a which came first the chicken or egg but for a given pump rate pressure comes from restriction to flow. Pressure loss from friction and piping losses are hard to calculate but then when the largest restriction is appreciably larger and at the end of the line it builds back upstream to be system pressure. I think that is why feed the beast seems to help flow it reduces the accumulation of frictional pressure drops to make the IP the major restriction at the end of the line and allows the LP to flow a more consistent pressure and more fuel at lower pressure.

I don't know if its the age of my IP or what but I tend to get the lowest fuel pressure rolling into the fuelrate and letting the engine build up rpm with boost. I think it may be related to the IP adjusting timing on the fly and using housing pressure differential to provide force with the timing piston and its even more flow into the IP not necessarily injected but an increase in fuel through the transfer pump in the IP. If I floor the go pedal it doesn't seem to dip lift pump pressure as bad. ?????
 
I can bury the PSI gauge on my truck right down to 0 at WOT.. FRC-10. Need to reposition sensor and try again.
 
Will L. said:
On the lower fuel pressure with stock LP and larger fuel line, you should see a slight drop in pressure compared to with the smaller fuel line. That means your gauge is accurate.

Think if you use a 5/8" Garden hose how fast you can fill up a 5 gallon bucket and how far the water will spray out of the hose. Now if you change that hose to a 3/4" garden hose, The bucket will fill up faster because of the increase in volume. But the larger holes will not spray the water as far because there is a decrease in pressure.
Imagine if you used a 6" hose. The water would barely fall out in the end, but with no restriction the water would fill the bucket amazingly fast. It's back to that school book to remember the name of the correlation, I'm to sleepy to remember that name right now. Haha
Click to expand...
It's called friction loss the smaller the the more friction loss google it there are tables and calcs for figuring friction loss in any give dia. of pipe/hose
 
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