Does anyone have any data on the heath HT-4 cam's

[nmb2]

On the flip side there are people that come in with dyno sheets saying 500HP out of a built DURAMAX and they call BS on it over there. And I have seen others come in claiming 700HP out of a 5.9L with an exhaust, intake, and a Smarty stack and they believe it. And yes it is the standard in measuring equipment, but still not THE standard by many(and that's the last I have to say on it).

You can get 500hp with a tuner on a D-max... no clue why they would call BS, but I don't spend time in the D-max forum.. (yet... I'm starting an LB7 drag project soon)

As for a 700hp 5.9... thats a bit of a stretch... 550-600 is doable with intake, exhaust, and a smarty.

I think you and I are on the same page with dyno's my friend

 

[Paveltolz]

Доверяй, но проверяй

 

[OrionThade]

Oh you missed my introduction thread? I only have 20 some posts, how hard is it to search?

Just for you, I have a 6.9 IDI. My baseline pull was 292rwhp/614rwtq on fuel only. I have a methanol injection kit as well, but did not run with it, as I was only interested in fuel numbers. Both peaked below 2400rpm. This is in a ZF5, CC DRW F350. Coast down showed 29% parasitic loss. This is 377hp/792tq. Not 100% accurate, but its better than guessing..... That is my first and only dyno with this engine so far. I am running a BW 61/65/.80, which turned out to be too small. I have a new charger on the way. I am running a custom DB4 injection pump. 150cc output.... pump is still in R&D phases but I've put 6,000 miles on it so far in the last few months.... biggest issue is the pump starts to defuel @ 2600rpm, this is due to the stock spill ports not being able to keep up. I pulled the pump 2 days ago, disassembled today.... next week will be having more ports added to the rotor, and then some modifications to the dynamic timing advance mechanism... Once its back together will more/bigger ports, and a bigger cam pin, we are turning max fuel up to 200cc range......


In an attempt to help with the purpose of this thread, when I go and see heath diesel in person, I'll talk to him about his cam. Worst case scenario, is if someone were to buy it, you can just have a cam card run on it and you will know the EXACT specs of the cam.

So in other words you're making an apples to oranges comparison.

Not all IDI's are created equal.

BTW - I don't read every Noob's introduction thread. But since I now know that you know practically nothing about the 6.5 yet act like some kind of authority I also know that I can summarily dismiss anything you have say on the subject.

 

[buddy]

Guess that's why there hasn't been a successful modified cam design for the 6.2 or 6.5 sold by Crane, Delta, or anyone else these past 30 years.

Thats not really true, because there has been one or some, but the lack of interest is more from people on forums like this telling people how useless they would be that prevents it from ever happening. Just go look back at a few threads a couple years ago to understand.

 

[Crankme69]

The person you ate & drank with Paul has an open mind. I made my cool aid post on here accusing NO ONE specifically.

Read through these last 5 pages here & try to convince me that this has been an open discussion...?

Come on now be real & let's get serious please. I'm not trying to single out anyone...it sure reads like it's all biased to me. BTWTFDIK?

 

[Twisted Steel Performance]

I think maybe some of my comments were miss taken, I don't have anything against Heath at all, I don't know anything about the man.... All I was saying is that I would like to see some numbers to back up the clam of a given HP is all... I don't think that is too much to ask is it.. I think that showing us that the said cam did add HP would sell more cams...

To all of you that I pissed off, I didn't plan on doing that at all, I only was looking for a little more than a butt dyno is all, maybe some time someone that has purchased one will dyno it and show that it does add HP.. that would be enough for me... again I didn't mean to sound like I don't like Heath or believe him, I do, just looking for proof is all.....

 

[Twisted Steel Performance]

sctrailrider, as much as the discussion is about this and that, it has derailed as even if the comparisons that have been talked of in the last few posts are made, it will be apples to oranges as you've requested HT-4 and these will be HP-3 cams. And then it will be with DB-4s... Hopefully though, there will be a basis for comparison from OEM (ish) to a new cam to be of some assistance.

If you like, I'll go the way of DTMAbfall on this thread and bail.

Cheers.

Paul

Paul, when this thread started, I never intended it to become what it has, I have been around gasser motors all my life, when building them, cam specs are needed when desighing a said motor for a said need...and somewhere there is dyno sheets to show a said clam for a cam... somehow my comments have offended some here, that is my fault I guess, I'm not good at putting things in my head into the typing. All I ever wanted was something other someones word on what the HT-4 would give me with my set up, I am in the middle of building a motor now and would spend the 600$ now if the numbers looked good to me.... I don't know anything about Heath and I have no reason to say anything bad about him or his company and I don't, I guess I will leave this thread and forget it, I started it only to try and get real info for my build, I have talked to Bill and he has tried to answer my questions and has to a extent, but when he tells me that he hasn't even put the HT-4 in a motor with a DB 2 pump then says it does this & that to that said motor, well how do I know that it does??

And NO Paul, don't leave this thread, I don't wan anyone to get pissed off and leave, that isn't why I started this thread, it has gotten a little off track I think but that can't be prevented. I will quit posting and just read and when you do show some info on the cams, I will be reading it and learning, after all, I am here to learn ....

 

[sshewins]

Do you think the engineers at gm talk together like this? I mean when they're coming up with new ideas and such. As long as its productive and doesn't get too personal... Besides, look at congress lately, some dude went on a paper throwing temper tantrum. And he's supposed to be 'dignified'. Guess I just derailed the derail.

 

[Slim Shady]

Доверяй, но проверяй

никогда не пробуйте или траст, сначала исследования

That takes out some of the guesswork. 2 years of dealing with Russian immigrants, believe nothing and trust only yourself.

 

[RI Chevy Silveradoman]

Just making a comment here. Try and call Coca Cola and ask them for their recipe for their soda. See if they give it to you. Let me know how you make out. It is called proprietary information. Research and development costs money. I do not know of anyone who would spend money and time (years) to develop a product, and then just go and "give it up" to anyone who asks for it. Enough said.

Now back on topic.

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

We don't need anybody to leave this thread, just please keep your emotions on simmer and keep the discussion on boil. We can all benefit from discussion and ideas being bounced back and forth, but by calling out people and focusing on it does not furthur the discussion or tech content which is why were all here. I saw what I thought was emotions beginning to boil over earlier on, and just asked that we all play nice and keep this civilized so that nobodys leave the discussion and detracts for the tech building aspect of it. And I doubt you will get Heath to list all of the details of his camshafts. It costs ALOT of money to do R&D, espescially when your one of the only ones doing it on an obsolete base.

 

[buddy]

Just making a comment here. Try and call Coca Cola and ask them for their recipe for their soda. See if they give it to you. Let me know how you make out. It is called proprietary information. Research and development costs money. I do not know of anyone who would spend money and time (years) to develop a product, and then just go and "give it up" to anyone who asks for it. Enough said.

Now back on topic.

The original request was merely documented performance.

However, have you ever shopped for an aftermarket cam? Some of the specs are needed by an engine builder for planning.
For example:
http://www.coltcams.com/html/cummins_5_9_camshafts/
http://www.ssdieselsupply.com/product_159_6.5TD_Performance_Roller_Camshaft_kit.html
http://www.cranecams.com/110-111.pdf
http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=1104&sb=2

So you see, its not an uncommon request for some specs, at least lift and duration.

 

[red]

The 'proof of performance' is, to me, why we have the dyno fund going right now so we can have better ideas of what each modification does to these engines. Which btw mods if one of yall can setup a spreadsheet of some kind listing the results would be fantastic, or just a thread where we can post the dyno sheets with no other comments.

The only person I'm aware of with a db2 and a ht4 towing cam at this time is me, and i'm currently waiting for my pre-cups and injectors to get back so the motor can go back together. If yall can wait just a little while longer I'll do a dyno run and post up the results, but it wont be until sometime in july.

 

[nmb2]

The 'proof of performance' is, to me, why we have the dyno fund going right now so we can have better ideas of what each modification does to these engines. Which btw mods if one of yall can setup a spreadsheet of some kind listing the results would be fantastic, or just a thread where we can post the dyno sheets with no other comments.

The only person I'm aware of with a db2 and a ht4 towing cam at this time is me, and i'm currently waiting for my pre-cups and injectors to get back so the motor can go back together. If yall can wait just a little while longer I'll do a dyno run and post up the results, but it wont be until sometime in july.

If you have the camshaft in question, and its not running for another 2 months you can easily settle this.

Pull your camshaft out, take/send it to a grinder, and have them run a cam card. That will reveal EVERYTHING about the camshaft....

 

[Paveltolz]

Paul, when this thread started, I never intended it to become what it has, I have been around gasser motors all my life, when building them, cam specs are needed when desighing a said motor for a said need...and somewhere there is dyno sheets to show a said clam for a cam... somehow my comments have offended some here, that is my fault I guess, I'm not good at putting things in my head into the typing. All I ever wanted was something other someones word on what the HT-4 would give me with my set up, I am in the middle of building a motor now and would spend the 600$ now if the numbers looked good to me.... I don't know anything about Heath and I have no reason to say anything bad about him or his company and I don't, I guess I will leave this thread and forget it, I started it only to try and get real info for my build, I have talked to Bill and he has tried to answer my questions and has to a extent, but when he tells me that he hasn't even put the HT-4 in a motor with a DB 2 pump then says it does this & that to that said motor, well how do I know that it does??

And NO Paul, don't leave this thread, I don't wan anyone to get pissed off and leave, that isn't why I started this thread, it has gotten a little off track I think but that can't be prevented. I will quit posting and just read and when you do show some info on the cams, I will be reading it and learning, after all, I am here to learn ....

Thanks, I had re-read the thread as was requested and felt that while the discussion has been reasonably open, continuing on the HP-3 vs HT-4 vein was counter productive to what info you were seeking. As Buddy pointed out, if one re-reads the older threads on cams, THOSE got ugly and then got uglier still. This one has been, well, spirited and such but it's no where near where those went though it has had a few moments of potential. I chalk a lot of that up to reading vs talking, moods, moon phases, the lateness of the hour some of us were posting and some of the broad brush strokes "Heathers" were being painted with. I happen to like some brands of Kool-aide (insert smiley face here) and didn't take it personally and I can and do respect Greg and his opinion though I disagreed. Not everyone believes we've been to the moon, the earth is round, religion has merit, or that Heath Diesel is all that its cracked up to be. Life, and we're all in it together.

I'll be in North Carolina next week but it's a four-plus hour drive to Pauline so I regret that I won't be able to even attempt a short GTG, share an adult beverage of choice and laugh at the folly that seems to be in owning a 6.2/6.5 diesel truck.

Buddy, I guess my point was that manufacturers trying to build cams in mass for our trucks seem to have failed. I understand that Diesel Depot used to offer a "super cam" which was ground by either Crane or Delta. Customer's trucks ran so poorly that even Diesel Depot pulled them from their line...that's says a lot. If I'm wrong, someone please name the successful manufacturer producing them in mass. Your projects and those of others have been individual ones and not mass production and I say please keep it up and don't let anyone tell you its not possible to improve on the design or, there's nothing that can be done to a GM cam because a successful gasser grinder says so. Bumble Bee's aren't supposed to be able fly according to some 'facts' which seem to be lost on the bees. I too am interested in how your Oregon Grind performs and what profile you selected. Seems you'll be getting some practice at the PCM in order to see what additional gains can be had by tweaking the electrons.

My offer to nmb2 is genuine, he's free to drive my truck as it's still pretty much OEM. Bill could flatline the tune to OEM even if it would help. My tune profiles are saved on his computer so they are easy to restore. Anyone else passing through that wants to try it out as a comparison before it enters the disassemble mode, let me know and I'll pass that to Bill so he's not caught unawares.

Red, take your time and as for me, I'm in the waiting game too so whenever is good. July is probably way ahead of when mine would be done. Hopefully it will be of assistance to sctrailrider and others to help people make a more informed decision, which was the original intent of his thread.

 

[RI Chevy Silveradoman]

The original request was merely documented performance.

However, have you ever shopped for an aftermarket cam? Some of the specs are needed by an engine builder for planning.
For example:
http://www.coltcams.com/html/cummins_5_9_camshafts/
http://www.ssdieselsupply.com/product_159_6.5TD_Performance_Roller_Camshaft_kit.html
http://www.cranecams.com/110-111.pdf
http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=1104&sb=2

So you see, its not an uncommon request for some specs, at least lift and duration.

All pretty much "generic" cams. I am well aware of that info, and engine building. But thanks for your help!

 

[buddy]

As was pointed out earlier Delta has been out for a long time, how to gauge its success is another thing all together. I have not heard anyone say a bad thing about it. DZZ71 has one in his truck, and there were posts at DP years ago of a member having positive results. Who knows how many military engines have them, could be thousands, as they apparantly ran studies for them and the cams they have are based off those studies with dynos.

This was commented on another mercedes forum
"6.2L diesel
Delta dyno'd 6.2' N/A and turbo and they developed a 202 and 206 profile for that motor...The only difference between them is 4 degree of duration! ...Basically Delta said that the turbo'd 6.2 preferred 4 degrees more on the dyno and the N/A peaked with 4 degrees less! they just have not released the dyno numbers to my knowledge..."

Of course how those engines dyno'd make power has a lot to do with what turbo and fueling they were using.

Someone at the Page had commented on the 206 cam as well, I dont have a membership, but rafedial commented at DP
"to which he said his truck spooled quicker, and had consistantly lower EGTs compared to the stock cam. No Dyno proven results though. I remember he did alot of towing with it as well."

They would probably sell more if they advertised the actual specs and results, since they are not expensive.

 

[buddy]

All pretty much "generic" cams. I am well aware of that info, and engine building. But thanks for your help!

Generic, custom, whatever you call it, there are Cummins cams that other have said a Cummins wouldnt even benefit from. And since you are familiar you can appreciate the necessity of knowing the cam specs.

 

[nmb2]

I know the specs of the Delta 206......

same as stock specs, except with a 206 intake duration.

I do a lot of busienss with Ken and Scott, and they used the Delta 206 results to come up with the Ford Delta 206......

The increase was 11% over stock..... they have sold A LOT of those cams..... in the hundreds easily.

 

[red]

If you have the camshaft in question, and its not running for another 2 months you can easily settle this.

Pull your camshaft out, take/send it to a grinder, and have them run a cam card. That will reveal EVERYTHING about the camshaft....

Yes it is the camshaft in question, however I'm not going to pull it back out since I have the front of the motor mostly back together already. I work in the oilfield on a 11-3 rotation right now (work 11 days off 3), so spending the time to take the front end and lifters back out is not worth the hassle to me.

I bought the cam knowing full well that it's the first db2 with the cam, so basicly a test dummy for it. If you look in the thread 'motors motors motors' i've got the details in there (6.5 performance section).