Delta 202 cam no good?

[n8in8or]

I emailed Heath this morning to get started on a new tune for my build and part of his reply told me that the Delta 202 cam doesn't work. Here is what he said:

The Delta cam you have is one that will not work. We've seen many trucks over the years that have run that cam and have had very bad performance and some drivability issues with it - so I don't think you'll have any luck there.

I've read other threads on Delta cams and didn't see any mention of it not working. I just asked him if it was a difference between mechanical injection and electronic injection, because I didn't see if that was a factor in other threads. I'll see what his response is.

I'm concerned because it's the only cam I have for the engine and it's already ground and on the way back. Am I going to have issues or is this step 1 of the HT4 sales pitch?

Thanks for any info.

Nate

 

[Jorge6.5]

I'm betting he wants to sell you one of his cams, big $$$

 

[FellowTraveler]

Are you using the gear drive timing set, if so it has a built in 2 deg. advance that maybe an issue, but keep in mind I'm not well versed in these 6.5 diesel bumpsticks.

 

[n8in8or]

I'm betting he wants to sell you one of his cams, big $$$

Yeah, my thought as well, but I want to make sure, especially since I need a tune.

Are you using the gear drive timing set, if so it has a built in 2 deg. advance that maybe an issue, but keep in mind I'm not well versed in these 6.5 diesel bumpsticks.

I'm using the stock chain so that isn't the issue.

 

[n8in8or]

Here is Joe's reply:

That delta cam is a remake of the old Crane camshaft that had running issues. The problem with that cam design is there is only 1 lobe profile for the entire cam. These engines require different lobe designs for passenger and drive side, which is the way the cam is done from GM. When you have 1 lobe for both sides it causes the event timings to be off from what they should be, and you have a cam that makes less power and has drivability issues as a result of that. The Delta or Crane cams are ones that are ground in such a way that we cannot even use them as a core cam.
Our HT4 Performance cam is one that has 4 different lobe designs, 2 for each side - an intake and exhaust lobe. That allows the cam to treat both sides of the engine differently, optimizing performance.
Similar to gas race engines, you'll see them having upwards of 6 different lobe profiles to make everything work to it's very best.
The HT4 Performance cam that we offer is one that makes 20+ HP and 40+ FP at the flywheel, and also lowers the exhaust temperature dramatically. We've also had many repots of 1-2, and sometimes more, MPG gain.
Let me know if this helps!

Hmmmmm

 

[devildogadam]

I am not smart, but that smells funny, like something you might step in at a dairy farm.

 

[JayTheCPA]

For another comparison, see if you can get details on the P-400's cam as that motor was designed for higher output and durability.

 

[n8in8or]

I am not smart, but that smells funny, like something you might step in at a dairy farm.

He he he....I didn't want to say it myself but.....

The only way I can figure that is true is that the cam would be ground to compensate for the longer path the exhaust takes to get to the turbo from the driver's side of the engine to the passenger side via the crossover. But even then, I don't know that I buy it. Delta and Crane have good reputations in the industry so can they really not figure out how to make a cam work right for these?

 

[n8in8or]

For another comparison, see if you can get details on the P-400's cam as that motor was designed for higher output and durability.

Hmm that's true. I know they did some measuring of a P400 cam on the other site, but I think they only did the #1 cylinder, no comparison of one bank to another.

 

[FellowTraveler]

He he he....I didn't want to say it myself but.....

The only way I can figure that is true is that the cam would be ground to compensate for the longer path the exhaust takes to get to the turbo from the driver's side of the engine to the passenger side via the crossover. But even then, I don't know that I buy it. Delta and Crane have good reputations in the industry so can they really not figure out how to make a cam work right for these?

Yes, it could be possible only on side mount turbo motors and the turbulence that goes with it then that longer travel hitting two exhaust ports on turbo side too so this would be side mount only wonder if there is a cam for the hummer, vans etc.?

 

[hookedup50]

I know nothing about the cam design in our trucks, but if any part comes from any other vendor but Heath, it's crap in thier eyes. I got a similar story when I told Bill I bought an ATT. He then tried to sell me his turbo, because the ATT is a skunk with tiger stripes painted over it. He used to sell Water meth systems, and they were the greatest thing ever. When they stopped selling them, they were junk. That being said, I have lots of Heath parts on my truck, including a tune. I have had no issues with any of the parts or thier products and still buy parts on occasion. Just realize their stance on anybody elses parts.

 

[n8in8or]

I know nothing about the cam design in our trucks, but if any part comes from any other vendor but Heath, it's crap in thier eyes. I got a similar story when I told Bill I bought an ATT. He then tried to sell me his turbo, because the ATT is a skunk with tiger stripes painted over it. He used to sell Water meth systems, and they were the greatest thing ever. When they stopped selling them, they were junk. That being said, I have lots of Heath parts on my truck, including a tune. I have had no issues with any of the parts or thier products and still buy parts on occasion. Just realize their stance on anybody elses parts.

I have similar experiences with them.

 

[devildogadam]

Where the turbo is mounted should not matter... because pressure is a equal push outward... so if you are having 22 psi of drive pressure it will be the same at cylinder # 1 as it is at cylinders # 4 & 6. The cam will have no effect on the exhaust gasses once the exhaust valve closes. And to tell me that GM designed a v8 that needs different cam lobes seems a bit fishy. Sit down and think about this. The heads are interchangeable, the valves are all exactly the same, so are the rockers/ pushrods. And the Pistons are all exactly the same. So how on earth would cylinder 8 be different than cylinder 3 or 6.

 

[n8in8or]

Yeah the more I think about this, the more it smells like pasture....which is really disappointing as a customer.

 

[6.5L]

Remember, if you are buying anything from Heath, you are paying extra because it comes in a box with his name on it. Sounds fishy. I've heard of a lot of people having great luck with the Delta cam. Heath is always out to sell something of his own, which from a business stand point, I get. But he will no stand behind any other products, only his own.Like other said, " if Heath doesn't run it, it's garbage. If he runs it, it's the best thing ever, until it's upgraded, then becomes garbage". A lot of times making your own informed decision is best.

 

[n8in8or]

Which is why I'm on here learning from you guys. Thanks for the replies

 

[Will L.]

I really can't understand the turbo side needing different lift or duration specs due to back flow issues.

Is there a different cam for n/a vs turbo and vs center mount vs side mount on optimizers? They build all 3 with 1 cam only.

When my cam bearing spun in my optimizer, I spoke to Bill about a cam, but he was also fixed on trying to sell me a new turbo with it. After some thought about required modifications to my truck, I opted to keep the centermount gm6 I had. Calling back up to find the availablity of the new ht4 cam his partner bragged then about the 4 different cam lobes, and told me call the next day to ask Bill on eta for cam.
On talking to Bill about cam only and no side mount turbo option he dismissed the 4 different lobes as so negligible that I am ok with it even on center mount or n/a if I were to go back to it since that was a possibility at the time.

Does anyone we know have a p400 cam spec sheet? I have my old optimizer cam stored away somewhere I could dig up. If the p400 cam is built for center mount turbos (which they are) the side mounting of a turbo might cause drive ability issues maybe? Hmm.

 

[6.2 turbo]

I had a cam ground locally ,but it had some overlap that caused a major drive-ability problem. It had tremendous spoolup power,but the engine would run off of it's own exhaust,and clatter like crazy,it didn't matter were I set the injection timing.

 

[FellowTraveler]

I really can't understand the turbo side needing different lift or duration specs due to back flow issues.

Is there a different cam for n/a vs turbo and vs center mount vs side mount on optimizers? They build all 3 with 1 cam only.

When my cam bearing spun in my optimizer, I spoke to Bill about a cam, but he was also fixed on trying to sell me a new turbo with it. After some thought about required modifications to my truck, I opted to keep the centermount gm6 I had. Calling back up to find the availablity of the new ht4 cam his partner bragged then about the 4 different cam lobes, and told me call the next day to ask Bill on eta for cam.
On talking to Bill about cam only and no side mount turbo option he dismissed the 4 different lobes as so negligible that I am ok with it even on center mount or n/a if I were to go back to it since that was a possibility at the time.

Does anyone we know have a p400 cam spec sheet? I have my old optimizer cam stored away somewhere I could dig up. If the p400 cam is built for center mount turbos (which they are) the side mounting of a turbo might cause drive ability issues maybe? Hmm.

I'm not well versed in 6.5td bumpsticks, however my thought is such a cam w/4 different grinds sounds possible but not so practical and it would only be helpful for the side mount turbo IMHO. My injector nozzle failures (heat related) are always on the turbo side right where the drivers side exhaust intersects w/turbo manifold with the last injector on that side failing infrequently so such grind maybe helpful how much would be anyones guess.

We need to find out any and all specs for these bumpsticks be it the 6.5 n/a or 6.5 td.

 

[FellowTraveler]

Where the turbo is mounted should not matter... because pressure is a equal push outward... so if you are having 22 psi of drive pressure it will be the same at cylinder # 1 as it is at cylinders # 4 & 6. The cam will have no effect on the exhaust gasses once the exhaust valve closes. And to tell me that GM designed a v8 that needs different cam lobes seems a bit fishy. Sit down and think about this. The heads are interchangeable, the valves are all exactly the same, so are the rockers/ pushrods. And the Pistons are all exactly the same. So how on earth would cylinder 8 be different than cylinder 3 or 6.

I'm by no means an expert on these bumpsticks and just think about the injector nozzle failures in my case are always at those cylinders where the driver side exhaust intersects w/turbo manifold with last cylinder failing w/less frequency, perhaps it's only heat damage but the flow maybe be a contributing factor too, I don't really know.