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DB2 conversion issues/solutions

largelybored

largelybored

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Location
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Hi all,

Recently the IP on my 1998 C2500 Suburban went out. I've been quoted about $1900 to install a new DS4 w/stanadyne PMD by the local Stanadyne shop. I'm trying to come up with the cost (parts and labor) for doing a DB2 conversion. So far the parts come out to $2200 or so. (Scheid reman pump, hpca sender, injector lines, throttle cable, optishift, kennedy turbomaster, TPS). I still need to source the bracket and pedal assembly.

I'm in the process of trying to find a shop to give me an estimate on the conversion. (I can't do it myself)

I've read Bobbie Martin's guide, and to avoid the TCM wiring issues, I decided its probably easier to buy an Opti Shift.

I'd like to solicit people's thoughts on solving the dual thermostat + throttle bracket problem.

Some folks have modified the throttle bracket. I know one forum member did so, but he's got a NV4500, so he has no need for a TPS. I'm not sure if you can shave the bracket if you need the mounting holes for the TPS. Another member put on a different upper intake and rotated his thermostat housing to get the clearances.

Other folks say you can go to a single thermostat housing.


Does anyone else have any creative ideas for solving this problem?

I'd like to have the capability of putting on an electromechanical cruise control, I'd like to keep my two thermostats, and I'd like to have the simplest, most capable solution.

At this point, I'm thinking turning the thermostat housing around and changing out the upper intake to what I think is the van style may be the best option.

-LB
 
Hey LB, tunning in.

As we have been talking about the last few days. I turned my tstat housing upside down to gain the clearence for the throttle bracket, but that means it interferes with the stock upper intake, so I bought a penniscular upper and made the connections to the turbo with some real simple elbows. Had I to do it again I would go single tstat.
If you go OptiShift you won't need the ESS engine speed sensor. A 93 truck/engine would be a great donor. Start looking on the internet for one.
You will be able to keep your cruise control, but it has to be off a 93 "style" cruise and you will have to wire it up.

Picture of my 96.
DS4 to DB2 swap 003.jpg

:welcome8:
 
LMC truck may help with some parts.

Screw the Turbo Master solution - just get a better turbo. Your fuel economy will be better and you will have lots more power in the top end. The wastegate elimination A Team Turbo Kit is highly recommended...

You gain nothing with the 2 thermostat design - swap to the single t-stat and be done with the problem. I have run the single t-stat hard and kept temps in check.

Ask for help and local members may be able to do this conversion for you for Beer or other items of trade value... :agreed:
 
The A-Team turbo is on the wish list when I get a new motor. The original motor has 255k on it right now. I'm trying to get the truck back on the road, reliably (DB2!) for relatively cheap. Going with the ATT will raise the cost about $700 more over just getting a turbomaster. The wife isn't asking for a turbo upgrade at this time. :)

On the thermostat housing, is it just the $30+ part I need to swap? or is there extra plumbing work involved? Are there any issues (waterpump or pressures?) with putting a single thermostat on a 97+ truck compared to the often stated lack of benefit of putting dual thermostats on a pre 97 truck?

It would be great to find someone around Austin or parts east of Austin that would be willing to help. I don't have a place to work right now, just a gravel driveway which is why I'm looking for a competent shop.
 
Don't know what your refering to for $30, but the xover is a direct bolt on.
Look at Teds on ebay for a take out engine (DB2) will be a good option.
 
I was talking about the Thermostat Housing / Water outlet ACDELCO part# 151753 on rockauto.com..thats the 98 part. The 95 model year part shows only a four seasons part # 85224. Trying to find out the cost and part # of what I need to convert to single thermostat.
 
Rumor is the block pressure is slightly higher with the single. I doubt the water pump makes much pressure vs. the 16 PSI working pressure of the system. I guess the top radiator hose is different.

Why exactly did they pronounce the DS4 dead? Possible it is just the PMD?

Working on the top of the engine a gravel driveway on good weather days isn't bad.

Sure you want a DB2 project vs. just another DS4 to cheaply get it back on the road?
 
i am in baytown if you need something. there a lot of parts for sale on craigs in your area. are you close to bastrop? i will try to find you some less expensive parts, IP, crossover, parts engine close to you if you want. if you want new/rebuilt, prepare to pay. a used IP DS4 might be an option and less money.
 
Long story short, I had TCC shudder symptoms between 55-65mph. (3.73 gears). ATRA shop put a scanner on it and it showed no slip on the clutch. Injection shop found improper delay on the "armature".. after I took it home it wouldn't start in the morning. I bought the truck with 228k, drove it till 255k with a bad lift pump. I recently replaced it with a 93 year pump, and then a few weeks later it started the shudder. Transmission shop diagnosed it as a failing torque converter dampener. (something you can't prove without cutting it open apparently). After a rebuild, the same problem persisted. They took it to the IP shop when the armature timing was discovered. I have 3 PMDs under the hood, two of which start the truck, 1 is a Heath d-tech. I tried disconnecting the optical sensor, truck still won't fire. It cranks but no smoke.

The transmission shop is kicking me back 1/3rd of what I paid them. So since I drove it for 2 years with a bad lift pump, I'm sure it stressed the IP. I have extensive records from the previous owner, so it is likely an original IP.

I plan on keeping it, oh, forever, so I don't mind repairing it, which is why I'd like to put a DB2 in it. When the motor goes, I'll probably put in another.

I'm just trying to figure out which way to handle the throttle bracket problem so I can tell the shop what to do. Or if things keep going as they have been, every diesel shop I've talked to is afraid of touching it for one reason or another.

I've got the service manuals, but no clean place to work or I'd be willing to try it myself.
 
deejaaa said:
something you can do yourself, check fuel delivery. you should have at least 7psi to the FFM, same to the IP. put a gauge before the FFM and reconnect to to behind the FFM. if it checks good, remove upper intake and fuel inlet. hopefully it will look like mine did, http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/showthread.php?33743-Is-This-Normal-Intake-Removed
post #22, and all needed is cleaning.
Click to expand...
If you used a used lift pump you could still have pressure and delivery issues. Do what deejaaa saith. :)
 
Go with a single xover it will be cheaper the buying another upper intake. Throttle bracket will bolt right in then to.
 
L98TPI said:
If you used a used lift pump you could still have pressure and delivery issues. Do what deejaaa saith. :)
Click to expand...

No, I installed a new Delphi HFP905. Opening the vent cap on top of the filter I get gushes of clear fuel.. Since the truck ran for 2+ years with a failed lift pump, I'm chalking it up to IP failure. The guy at the Stanadyne shop said he'd pop it open to find out if it was the armature that went.
 
I am slightly puzzled. Why spend the $$$ for the optishift, when the factory computer will operate your trans just fine?
All you need too do is keep your current pedal, fabricate an arm so it operates your throttle cable, and hook it up. I have done this to my truck, we did a '99 suburban, and a friend of mine did several trucks this way.

If you need ideas on what the pedal should look like, I could possibly take mine out, or we might have pics somewhere.
 
something is getting lost in translation. why do you want to spend so much coin? bring it down here, i will look at it for nothing. look at the fuel delivery AFTER the FFM, get a USED engine for parts, sell the extra, use the parts you have but change them a little, you don't need concrete to do this work, you won't be under it. believe me, you WILL spend more money on the truck in the future, save some money now so it won't be stranded in the driveway because you don't want to spend any more on it. i thought you wanted advice, listen to our experience, it MIGHT save some frustration.
 
Cumminsfever said:
I am slightly puzzled. Why spend the $$$ for the optishift, when the factory computer will operate your trans just fine?
All you need too do is keep your current pedal, fabricate an arm so it operates your throttle cable, and hook it up. I have done this to my truck, we did a '99 suburban, and a friend of mine did several trucks this way.

If you need ideas on what the pedal should look like, I could possibly take mine out, or we might have pics somewhere.
Click to expand...

I was going from Bobbie Martin's guide and other posts he had made about the difficulty in getting the existing pedal modified properly to work the mechanical linkage. My understanding was that replacing the pedal was the best method, thereby needing the optishift or van TCM. If you have photos it would be great to look at them.
 
largelybored said:
I was going from Bobbie Martin's guide and other posts he had made about the difficulty in getting the existing pedal modified properly to work the mechanical linkage. My understanding was that replacing the pedal was the best method, thereby needing the optishift or van TCM. If you have photos it would be great to look at them.
Click to expand...


If you are truly interested, I can take my pedal out and take pics. But it will be a few days.

But, if you got the $$$, and are feelin spendy, go ahead and do it your way.
I prefer to think of the 6.5 as "economical". I have less than $300 in my conversion... unless you count the raptor lift pump I put on... 13,000 miles (and counting) without a hiccup!!!!
 
Cumminsfever, let me check on the fuel inlet screen this weekend and see if that's my problem. I'll contact you via PM so you don't unnecessarily have to remove your pedal.

Thanks for the kind offer.
 
We tried the APPS mod also, but never got it perfected there would always be some issue. Overdrive would not come in or 1-2 shift was very harsh..............ect was always a trade off somewhere.
 
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