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Complete 6.5TD rebuild with used IP and no fuel to injectors!!Help!

suppakoopa

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Location
Upstate NY
First off, I'd like to say this site has helped me out tremendously throughout my latest 6.5TD adventure. Tons of great info and very informative people, so much so I have always been able to find what I'm looking for up until this point, without having to ask for help. I have a 1995 GMC Suburban K1500 with a 6.5TD vin F that I got cheap from a guy on the list. Vehicle was not running nor did it have ant batteries in it at the time of purchase, so I couldn't even crank it. What drew me to it was the Greasecar WVO kit that he had them install in it a few years prior to this. More on that later, if anyone wants to hear about it! Anyway, he told me it died on him while running on WVO and he couldn't get it restarted. His mechanic said it most likely needs a new IP and injectors and the turbo was seized. The mechanic had taken the turbo apart and left all the pieces scattered across the engine bay, the compressor wheel would not turn freely. So I got it home to start some diag on it, after putting batteries in her, gave it a crank and all I hear is screeching. The clown had destroyed the teeth on the flexplate and the pinon gear on the starter motor in a attempt to restart it after it died. Engine would not turn over. I manually turned it over to make sure it was not seized, and it was not. I then decided to pull the engine for flexplate replacement and to look at the sludge i was fearing to find in the oil pan that may have killed the turbo. Skip ahead to new 40 over pistons, complete bearing and gasket set, valve seals, rebuilt injectors, new crank sensor, used IP from Ebay off a running truck and a through cleaning of every god forsaken part in and around the engine to where I am now. I have fuel to the IP with good pressure from the new lift pump, with the OPS mod,(also added a toggle switch to run the lift pump prior to cranking) and plenty of fuel out of the return side of the pump, but none to the injectors. I removed the fuel shut off solenoid and verified its proper operation by energizing it out of the pump with the key. I have cranked this thing silly and nothing. I know my PMD is good because I have a 96 K2500 suburban with the same engine that will run with that PMD. So before I condemn the used IP I installed I started looking in to the wires that feed the IP to see if the PCM is sending the inject signal. Buddy has a very good write up and diagram that i used to troubleshoot this circuit. At the PMD wiring harness pin E I'm getting 5.3V while cranking, in specs. PMD pin B is 1.097 VAC, in specs. I have .3 ohms between terminals B and F in the PMD harness which is the the wires off the back of the IP. The rest of the wires in the harness D is B+ and C and F are both grounds. What I think is the problem is PMD pin A that is only putting out .3V and should be 1.2V while cranking. This is the fuel inject control wire that I traced back to the PCM and shows the same .3V out of PCM pin BC14/BD13. The weird thing is after I stop cranking the voltage goes to 4.9V then drops back to 0 after a couple of seconds. Not sure if that is normal or not?! So before I replace the PCM, which may have been the problem all along, I'm wondering what does the PCM need to see in order to send the proper voltage to the PMD to start this beast? I'm tempted to put some sort of voltage resistor with 1.2v into pin A and see if I get any fuel! I have tried disconnecting the optical sensor while cranking and nothing. Disconnected the new crank sensor and nothing. All of my grounds and battery contacts are clean, i have triple checked that. All fuses everywhere are good. I have the SES and glow plug lamp on the dash. Any advice or imput to get me outta this mess might get me back into bed with the wife! Sorry so long but I thought a little history might help.
 
Thanks for the Stanadyne service bulletin link, WarWagon, however the voltage tests are with the IP powered up and running at a specified RPM. I can't get the engine to spin fast enough to use those tests. I guess I just need to know what sensors the PCM looks at to send the proper voltage to PMD terminal A, green wire. At this point I'm a hair trigger away from ordering a new PCM to rule it out.
 
How long have you been cranking on it? Sometimes you just need to crank it more. Let the starter cool then crank some more. It has taken 20-30 minutes on some. Its a pain to get the air out. Hopfully thats all it is?
 
I have cranked for a total of 30 min not counting the cool down period. I have plently of fuel at the IP as it is coming out of the return with steady flow. Without proper voltage from the PCM, all the cranking in the world won't help.
 
Yes all lines are not only cracked, the are completely disconnected at the injectors. Fuel is getting to the injectors from the return lines but nothing from the IP pressure lines.
 
You need to make sure that batteries are still good after that much cranking.

Make sure all electricals are good also: starter, batteries, alternator, cables, connectors including grounds.

Otherwise, the rebuilt IP is bad.
 
Source I got says Pin A voltage should be .05 VDC

Pin Wire Color Voltage Source
A Light Green .5 VDC ECM
B Red 0 VDC Fuel Solenoid
C Black 0 VDC ECM
D Pink 12 VDC Underhood Fuse Fuel Sol Fuse (Connects to Shut Off)
E Red 5 VDC ECM
F Black 0 VDC Fuel Solenoid
 
Please verify that voltage on your truck, Paveltolz, which from your profile, sounds like an animal! I have come across a few different sources that list 1.2V to be the proper voltage at pin A. Pin B is clearly a AC voltage that comes directly from the IP. I think you may be misinformed.
 
Have you verified flow thru the injector lines???? If it was shut down on veggie oil and sat for a while the lines could be completley gunked solid. You might have to take them off and replace them or let them soak in gasoline or something to dissolve/loosen up the gunk............I would probably just replace them though if you cant get parts cleaner to flow through them.
 
I blew the lines out with compressed air, which removed nearly all the veggie in them. Then, I soaked them in straight purple power for about a week while the engine was at the machine shop. I have a high pressure cleaning wand that will injected the purple power thru them on the final clean. I ran a ton of water through them and compressed aired them after that. These lines are completely clean.
 
Well I ordered a used PCM today for $35. I figured I'd give it a shot before I spend loot on the IP. I'll keep you all posted. PCM should be in by Friday.
 
Please verify that voltage on your truck, Paveltolz, which from your profile, sounds like an animal! I have come across a few different sources that list 1.2V to be the proper voltage at pin A. Pin B is clearly a AC voltage that comes directly from the IP. I think you may be misinformed.

Sorry to be so late in responding and thanks for the truck compliments, it does alright.

Your issues...Figures, Pin A at .05vdc (and the rest of them) are key on, engine not running. Cranking, I see the >1.2vdc as you posted and what's listed in the documentation I have. So much for help! Apologies.
Yes, Pin B is "Fuel Solenoid High" which connects to the 'fuel solenoid' on top of the IP and back to the 'fuel solenoid driver' (pmd) through Pin F so I'm ok there.
Pins A, C, D & E all connect to the ECM

Attached is the 1997 manual's 'no start diagnostics' with schematics.
View attachment No Start Diagnostic.PDF
 
Thanks for the no start diagnostics, Paveltolz, I'll try to apply it tomorrow. Looking at the wiring diagram, where exactly are D3 and C3 terminals on the PCM. Those are the fuel inject controls for the IP. The PCM has 3 connectors, 2 pink and one blue. I though I was probing the correct wires but maybe not!

The fuel shut off on the IP is operating as it should.
 
I solved this problem sometime last year but forgot to post the solution. Nothing is more frustrating than reading thru these threads without a definative answer! Anyway, it ended up having air locked in the fuel lines. I found a thread somewhere by Missy Goodwrench that gives the best procedure for bleeding out fresh fuel lines with a new IP. First, pull all the glow plugs. Then prime the system by turning the key to the on position for 45 seconds, you should hear the fuel pump rattling during this. This "prime" forces the fuel through the IP and back to the tank. Next crank for 20 seconds or so, watching the glow plug holes for fuel vapor squiring out. Repeat this entire procedure until all cylinders have a good fuel spray coming out of them. Also allow for stater to cool in between crank sessions. It took about 6 cycles of this until I had fuel coming out of all 8 glow plug holes. Re-installed the glow plugs and it fired right up! Thanks to all who replied, hope this helps someone else with similar no start symptoms.
 
How long have you been cranking on it? Sometimes you just need to crank it more. Let the starter cool then crank some more. It has taken 20-30 minutes on some. Its a pain to get the air out. Hopfully thats all it is?

:thumbsup:
 
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