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Code 1214 and TDC -2.46

G

Gruffid

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Location
NoVa
My mechanic and I have been puzzled by this 1214 code and why we can't clear it. We know it involves the injection pump and the offset. We know we need to have the engine at or above 172*F and that we need to clear all DTCs before the KOKO will work. Despite several tries, we cannot get the TDCO to read anything other than -2.46. Do any of you have any recommendations?

We have physically moved the IP throughout the range both to the passenger side and the drivers side. The TDC never changes from -2.46.

This is after the timing gear and new crank sensor install - among other things.

Please help us out. We've run out of ideas.



Thanks guys
 
Try moving the IP further to the pass. side. Unless something else is the cause that is the direction you need to go.
 
Do you know what scanner he is using to measure TDCOffset? There is one out there that IIRC reads it differently than a Tech 2.
 
Hi Gruff you said NOVA as in Norfolk Va possibly, 2 posts welcome to the site.

TDCO issue eh, just moving the IP will not change the TDCO it has to be commanded to relearn either with a ko/ko command via the APP or if you have a Tech2 or Tech2 clone the learn can be commanded so long as you are close to "window" of authority, if turned too far one way or another during the learn it won't command the learn, also you have to clear any stored codes 1st, plus ECT has to be >170F before learn can happen.

As for the 1214 code what event/events made it come on has it always been there since you have owned the truck, or did something happen in addition to the code, change IP-PMD-PCM ??? Any drive-ability issues other than the code?
 
Thanks for the welcome!

We are using a tech 2 for our diagnostics and to command the time set and or TDCO learn. Alternatively we've been using the KOKO method for the TDCO learn.

We make sure we clear all codes prior to initiating the TDCO learn with the tech 2.

Recent upgrades include: DSG timing gears, new FSD w/ #9 resistor mounted to the grille, and several others not related to the fuel system (oil cooler & PS lines and coolers, etc).

My previous FSD was an SSDIESEL product mounted on the intake. Per their instructions, a ground was attached to the heat sink. When we installed the new FSD on the grille, we removed the ground wire from the SSDIESEL heat sink and attached it to one of the IP mounting bolts (the bolts that secure the IP to the engine - is this an appropriate location?)

Now, the engine blows a cloud of black smoke upon cold start, and the exhaust seems to be hazier than normal on WOT acceleration and sets the 1214 code. Would the ground location affect this?

Thanks for all of your help and quick responses.
 
TD, yes Northern Virginia. Not ideal, but better than MD.

We also ensure the engine temps are at or above 170* (via the tech 2) before we try to execute a TDCO learn. When attempting the KOKO method, we have been timing the procedure to ensure we get 45 seconds key on (engine off) and full throttle, then 30 seconds with key off, then start the engine.

Each time we get a TDCO of -2.46 and after a couple of starts, it will throw the 1214 code.

From what we understand, since its an OBD II vehicle, the TIME SET procedure is built in to the TDCO LEARN command. But we've been doing it anyway, just in case.
 
I just went through this with a customers truck. I was using carcode. No matter where I put the pump I could not get the tdco to change there for I could not clear the code and with a code in the ecm it won't command the learn. I had the same problem on another truck in the yard as well. I messed with my customers for weeks.
Here is what I did. If you clear the code with the engine cold it will not come back until the temp is over 150 and the rpms goes above 1500 it will come on as the rpm drops below 1500. I know everyone says the learn won't command with the temp below 170 but it did. Maybe it's something with carcode. That was the only way I could get rid of the code and get -1.56. Turn the pump to the passenger side with the fuel shut off just left(looking at it from the front) of straight up. Start the truck and command learn. It will most likely be way off but it will be in the + but it won't set a code. Then get the temp up and set as normal. After I did my customers, I went out to the other truck and did the same thing it took me 20 min and the truck was set. Hope this helps.
 
The ground from factory is attached to one of the torx bolts that hold the IP top cover on. And a belated Welcome.
 
Also, does the heat sink with the new FSD mounted behind the grille need to be grounded as well? currently it's not. It only has the 6' harness from the FSD to the IP for any electrical connection. Otherwise, it's just zip-tied to the grille.

Thanks.
 
So would the ground wire being attached to the ip bolt instead of the torx screw cause my problems?

My mechanic is concerned that something is wrong with the new reluctor that the DSG gear set came with. Basically that the crank sensor on the reluctor may not be positioned correctly due to poor manufacturing. Admittedly, he doesn't have much knowledge of the 6.5L diesels, as he's only really messed with the newer duramax and CTD diesels.

I'd much rather it be something a lot easier to manipulate like the ground wire. I've already sunk too much money into this truck as it is.

We did try reconnecting the old FSD but did not reconnect the ground wire to the heat sink (it's still on the IP bolt). We still had the same problem - it still coded 1214 with a -2.46 reading on the TDCO. And would not execute the TDCO learn. Is this a plausible effect from the IP not being properly grounded?

I will admit that before all of these mods two weeks ago, the truck ran fairly well. We changed the chain and HB manly due to preventive maintenance as neither of these items had been checked or replaced - ever. Even after the mods, my mechanic didn't know he was supposed to perform a TDCO learn after changing the timing chain out. And it still ran well with no codes. It only started throwing codes after the first time we tried to do the TDCO learn.

My opinion is that the truck would have thrown the 1214 code eventually as it does the regular TDCO learn every 50 or so starts anyway. The only difference is that at least now I know what the probable cause is due to the proximity of time to performing the mods. So it has to be something related to the mods. Either the ground wire or the DSG timing gears.

What are your opinions?

Thanks

Oh and thanks for the warm welcomes too!
 
x2, it all started with the timing change. He may have it a tooth out. The wire should be ok in the place, just in the way for adjustments.

OBD1 checks every 50 starts, OBD2 stores the value until a Time Set is activated.
 
Here is some FYI when it comes to OBD-II timing I wrote a while back over on old site & posted in the TRL here I think

Timing is best set with a GM tech 2, that said it can be done on OBD-IIs with a Snap On MT2500. You also should try to get a set of IP wrenches Snap On or OTC make a set just for the 6.5 also a turning tool, they can be made as well. One caution to not try to turn the IP with the fuel shutoff solenoid, it is tempting because it makes a convenient grab handle.

DON'T DO IT there is a lot of spring pressure from the IP lines that want to put the IP back to the relaxed state so you will want/need the IP turning tool to keep tension on IP while torqueing down the IP nuts so you can check your adjustment.

What I don't know is if this works for all OBD2 PCMs or just the ones with theft deterrent. It is for this reason I've not posted what worked for me in detail. (I have since writing this done it on multiple OBD-II years with success)

There are 2 different routines 1st is setting what I will call base timing, this one requires a 2 directional scan tool, start engine bring to normal Op temp 170F or > coolant temp I have since learned that 175-180 is best because if engine cools down before completing the IP move and lock down of IP it may inhibit the ko/ko learn command activation, use time set command of the MT2500 scanner to command timing desired to 0 deg, actual timing by GM manual should read 3.5 deg on avg. I like to set this at 3.6-3.7 avg, which will get you pretty close to the desired TDCO offset for performance -1.5 to -1.95

MARK IP BEFORE MAKING ANY ADJUSTMENT SO YOU CAN GO BACK TO WHERE YOU STARTED IF NEED BE. Also (1) mm rotation roughly a scribe line width = 2 deg. timing change, make small moves.

If above 3.5 avg., shut down engine, loosen mounting nuts and rotate pump toward pass side, if below 3.5 rotate toward drivers. These are hard to get at I moved the AC compressor off of its mount hoses still connected to get better access, also I don't think you can access them without making a custom wrench or buying the Snap-On set which I did. IP turning wrench is also an asset. Continue this until 3.5 avg. is satisfied. Because getting to IP hold down nuts for the later trucks with dual coolant T-stat is such a PITA I loosen the bottom 2 nuts to snug, then use the top nut to lock the IP between moves and do a final torque of bottoms when adjusting the IP is complete

The next procedure is the TDC offset which can be done independent of time set, and can be done with just a reader that displays TDC offset reading. Nothing in the manual directs that both be done at same time, but I do the time set before doing TDC offset just to see if I was in the correct ball park.

Snap On MT2500 TDC display is incorrect vs. a Tech 2 tool a T2 -.25 to-.75 setting is -4.8 on a MT2500, a T2 -1.76 to -1.94 setting is displayed as -5.4 MT2500 only carries to 1 decimal place.

Same as above bring engine to coolant temp 170 or above, see that all codes are clear (clear codes before proceeding).

Shut off engine, then turn key to run not start and accelerator to floor minimum 45 sec,(this activates TDC learn), then key off 30 sec.

Restart truck if coolant is above 170 and rpm below 1500 PCM automatically relearns offset, may stumble on start 1st run until new offset is accepted.

If you want TDC to go more negative(-), shutdown truck as before and rotate pump toward driver side, if you want a more (+) offset go toward pass side, same (1) mm =2 deg be frugal with adjustment.

Bolt all down do key on key off routine pedal to floor as before, and restart to do learn, and repeat until at desired TDC offset.

As you can see, some trial and error this way so the T2 is the way to go; with a tech 2 it is pretty much command and set if the IP is in window for the TDCO learn, if not you have to move the IP.

Little moves and attention to what you are doing, don't get too aggressive and should have no problems,

All else fails, go back to original mark, and relearn that setting.


TDC Offset using Snap On MT2500 vs. GM Tech 2

Tech 2 display MT2500 96 to 98 years cartridge MT2500 96 to 01 years cartridge
2.38 -1.2 -0.37
0.44 -3.2 -0.57
-0.09 -3.7 -0.62
-0.7 -4.3 -0.68
-1.5 -5.4 -0.77
-2.2 -5.8 -0.83
 
Wow! All of that info is pretty awesome. Thanks TD.

I'm thinking about buying carcode and trying to figure this out on my own. My mechanic has been pretty patient with me this far, but I don't want to push it. He's put probably five or six hours - without charging me - into trying to get the TDCO learn command to execute and it just won't initiate. So unless someone somewhat local has both a 2-way scanner and knows what they're doing, and is willing to help, it looks like I'll be trying to fix this on my own. Given that the engine runs pretty good right now, I can't figure out how the IP isn't somewhere close to where it needs to be for the computer to execute the TDCO learn process.

So, can someone post the website for carcode so I can download it? Also if you know the correct SNAPON part number for the ip nuts, that would be cool too. I know you guys said that you can make an IP turning tool, but is there one that you can buy and if so, from who?

Thanks a lot for all of your help this far. I just wish my 'burb would respond to what you guys are telling me.
 
NVW, thanks for the link!

Also, just to make sure we're using the Tech 2 correctly, here's what we're doing:

We get the engine up to temp (>170* F) and connect the Tech 2. Once we get the Tech 2 set up with the correct year and engine model, we have the menu page which lets you see the codes that have been set, we go into that and clear the codes. We then back out of that page and go to the powertrain page, then the fuel system page (I think) where it gives about four selections: Time Set, something else, TDCO Learn, and I think there's a fourth selection. We select the TDCO Learn menu option by highlighting it and pushing the "enter" button. The screen changes to the engine parameters screen with the TDCO parameter highlighted. We press the "enter" button and at the top of the screen, it changes from "commanded: no" to "commanded: yes." It stays "yes" for probably about 20 seconds or so, with nothing happening (no change in engine speed, sound, nothing) and then returns to "no" again.

does that sound correct?

TDCO remains at -2.46 and after the next start it throws the 1214 code again.
 
You're welcome.

I can't help with the Tech2, but on my 95 when it had the OBD1 version of that code, I commanded Time Set with GMTDScantech and the engine ran rough and almost died for about 20 seconds. It kind of scared me. I'm at a loss as to what is going on with yours.
 
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