• Welcome to The Truck Stop! We see you haven't REGISTERED yet.

    Your truck knowledge is missing!
    • Registration is FREE , all we need is your birthday and email. (We don't share ANY data with ANYONE)
    • We have tons of knowledge here for your diesel truck!
    • Post your own topics and reply to existing threads to help others out!
    • NO ADS! The site is fully functional and ad free!
    CLICK HERE TO REGISTER!

    Problems registering? Click here to contact us!

    Already registered, but need a PASSWORD RESET? CLICK HERE TO RESET YOUR PASSWORD!

Cams & cam regrind discussion as a performance adder

I havent opened up the pump, is there a way to find out from the outside of it?

The injectors will be freshly rebuilt stock bosche units and the pre-cups will be slightly larger than diamond cups. Compression will be either 20 or 21:1. I will be installing an intercooler in the truck from a 95 dodge 2500 (joys of an 87 body, plenty of room) but I can do the dyno runs without it plumbed if needed.

Truck is built for towing and low speed offroading, not a huge power build. More for reliability and fuel economy with better power than stock.
 
Seems like some peeps are too willing to maybe take, copy / paste quotes or make ass-umptions ... (I'm NOT finger pointing, just generalizing...) but taking maybe second / third hand info and making determinations from it.....

Call and talk to Bill and listen to his pitch / claims and maybe start drawing conclusions from there.

I will be calling and talking to him here again soon.. and would love to try and either catch a flight out or road trip out and see about taking a ride in some of these trucks to see what the "ass-dyno" feels like..
 
red said:
I havent opened up the pump, is there a way to find out from the outside of it?

The injectors will be freshly rebuilt stock bosche units and the pre-cups will be slightly larger than diamond cups. Compression will be either 20 or 21:1. I will be installing an intercooler in the truck from a 95 dodge 2500 (joys of an 87 body, plenty of room) but I can do the dyno runs without it plumbed if needed.

Truck is built for towing and low speed offroading, not a huge power build. More for reliability and fuel economy with better power than stock.
Click to expand...

Very easy Red, the pump designations are on the outside tag.....DB2xxx-xxxx.......fill in the x's and we will know the plunger size and the calibration of it.:)
 
red said:
sctrailrider I'll be doing a dyno run with my 6.5 this summer with the towing cam and a DB2 pump. If nobody has bought my old gm4 turbo by that time i'll do a run with that and another run with the ATT.
Click to expand...
That will be good to hear and see, my build will be going on most of the summer, taking it slow. I will be watching for the results for sure.

chris
 
I apologize to all whom I may have offended from my last post.... "#122" and apologize for the slight derail, I'll try to keep my hands to home and off the keyboard next time out drinkin..
 
Hey red, just as a word of possible caution, from what I've read, be VERY careful when doing stuff to your precups. IIRC, they all must be exactly the same size, pitch, depth...(you get the point). Only a few people documented their progress, but again IIRC, all 8 had to be identical to one another.

Now i remember, hank was the one who was doing some experimentation with shape, angle, etc...

Not trying to deter you from what you want to do, just don't want to hear about how your engine went bad after all your money and efforts going into it. All I'm saying is research this a little bit. Didn't mean to offend or step on anyone's toes. (I really hope that came out right)
 
Good recommendation. I'm sending the pre-cups to a machine shop that was recommended to have them enlarged, won't be doing that until sometime in april (building the motor in steps, bottom, front, top).

dyno results will be in my motors motors motors thread

Back on topic about the cams (sorry for the derail) I'm glad that the cams are being offered now, who knows maybe for the reliable towrig setups we can see near 600ft/lbs torque now with the upgrades that are available without sacrificing reliability. Will take some experimenting to find out what parts work to get the most out of these cams.
 
I'll chime in on dyno's too. Once my engine has broken in I'll be very interested to see what the results are. Won't be much for comparison contrast as there isn't a set of numbers for a 'before' base line but, it will be interesting to see what the end results are as well.

Cams. Pricing information I posted earlier in #111 is a copy and paste from an email I'd received from Heath Diesel for just such a purpose...to put out correct information to the community. I'll re-post it in the vendor section as well. Thanks and sorry if there was a misunderstanding. Trust me, I can't make this stuff up.
 
Paveltolz said:
Without the dyno set up at the shop, they used quarter mile times, vehicle weight, RPMs etc. to get a math number. Not sure how that all works as I've never tried to figure it all out.
Click to expand...

You mean this calculation, the one I supplied Burning Oil with from his Suburban Isuzu 4BD repower thread?

Found the issue of DieselPower, much simpler way to find HP based off of 1/4 mile E.T. and vehicle weight. From the Jan '09 issue:

CALCULATING HORSEPOWER FROM QUARTER-MILE ELAPSED TIME AND SPEED


E.T. divided by 5.825, then cube the result (multiply by itself three times, ie: 4x4x4) then divide the vehicle weight by that cubed number. That gives a very close number to the flywheel horsepower. To get RWHP, you must allow for driveline loss of about 20%, so take the number above and multiply by .8 to get RWHP. This is a very close approximation, but is subject to error due to things like traction problems, transmission slip, reaction time, turbo spooling, etc.

Here are two examples of number crunching:

Vehicle weight: 8,000lb. E.T. 15.9 sec. => 15.9 / 5.825 = 2.73 => 2.73 x 2.73 x 2.73 = 20.346 => 8,000 / 20.346 = 393 hp. 393 x .8 = 312 rwhp

V.W.: 7,200 lb. E.T. 11.55 sec. => 11.55 / 5.825 = 1.974 => 1.974 x 1.974 x 1.974 = 7.692 => 7,200 / 7.692 = 936 hp. 936 x .8 = 748 rwhp

Thanks to DieselPower for the numbers, the article can be found starting on page 144 of the Jan '09 issue.

So, let's pull some numbers out of our *ss for shits and giggles for Leroy's conversion project.

Let's assume a weight of 7,100 lbs including driver and a full tank of fuel for the Burb, and after getting his Optishift dialed in, he laid down a respectable 15.4 E.T. at the local 1/4 mile "midnight test run" location. Let's run the numbers:

15.4 / 5.825 = 2.644 => 2.644 x 2.644 x 2.644 = 18.484 (I'm rounding to the nearest 3 digits after the decimal point) => 7100 / 18.484 = 384.12 hp => 384.12 x .8 = 307.2 rwhp, a very realistic number. Using the S.W.A.G. method of hp to torque (torque is approximately twice rated flywheel hp) and you get 770 lb/ft at the flywheel and 615 on the ground.

Of course, nothing beats putting it on the rollers, but that even will vary from machine to machine as well as ambient conditions such as temp, humidity and roller traction will affect the results.
 
I'm stoked about the cams available. As some of you have picked up on by now, I'm looking for the ultimate Family Truckster K2500 Suburban high-speed Interstate cruiser with max MPG in the 24+ MPG range cruising at 75-85 mph. To include regearing from the stock 3.73 F/R to 3.42 F/R and maintaining close to stock tire/rim size (to keep ride height down and aero drag resistance minimized) to achieve a cruise RPM range of 1800-1900 at those speeds in O/D. I would LOVE to see some real-world MPG #'s with the HT-3 cam and tune, and perhaps with GM-8/ATT/HX-40II. I know, still down the road, but let's face it, as long as the Wall Street speculators are making all of us bend over at the diesel pump so they can purchase the vacation home in the Hamptons and buy Lovey her 4 carat diamond birthday present, I want to make every penny spent on Jurassic algae diesel count until I can get my bio-diesel reactor up and running and blend with used ATF and even then I still want max. MPG's.
 
Husker6.5 said:
You mean this calculation, the one I supplied Burning Oil with from his Suburban Isuzu 4BD repower thread?

Found the issue of DieselPower, much simpler way to find HP based off of 1/4 mile E.T. and vehicle weight. From the Jan '09 issue:

CALCULATING HORSEPOWER FROM QUARTER-MILE ELAPSED TIME AND SPEED....
Click to expand...

I have to admit, that hurt my head! "I've a third grade edumication in this here head of mine." I found a slide rule in my mom's stuff last Saturday, it had directions...that hurt too.

I did find the vexer web page that allowed me to plug in the RPM, Ring and Pinion, Final Drive Ratio, Tire Size, vehicle weight and get a final speed and quarter time (if that was the quarter time used) as well as estimated HP. I'll go make a run and see what spills out for what I've currently got, just for the heck of it.

I noticed Bill has his web page updated with the cam prices. I'll be making a few runs in Joe Heaths K2500 with the HP#3 and tune when I go up there in a couple of weeks and will report my observations. Right now he's at 102mph when doing full throttle upshifts from third to OD at 4600RPM (tires are 245-75-16). If those numbers remain consistent, I would theoretically be at 120mph with my 3.73s and 285-70-17s or 102mph @ 3914RPM in third. Interesting. I understand Joe's truck still pulls like Ben Hurr at the oars after getting into OD. I'm not a fan of speeds over 95mph with my truck but that was back when I was hanging on for dear life at full throttle with the ATT saying "MORE" and my front end saying, "You'll be a Daisy if you do." More like pushing up daisies, but the front end is all new now so we'll see what happens later.

Off topic: This is my 1000th post on TTS. Over use of smileys follows.
:postho:arms::dance::cheers2:
 
The beauty of the formula from DieselPower is that all you need is the vehicle weight and the 1/4 mile E.T. Simple plug in the numbers math that can be done on the cell phone calculator.

The limits of my laptop prevent me from writing out the equation, but the description (with examples) should be easy enough to follow.

Last winter I made a 50 mile run on I-88 at 95-100 mph with my bone stock, 3.73 geared K2500 Suburban to try and make up some lost time due to an ice storm when driving from Lincoln to Chicago. While it was able to hold that speed no problem and never went over 195 on the temp gauge, two things were very evident: It was in serious want of more air/boost at that speed, and secondly, the wear in the Pitman and idler arms and upper left ball joint were apparent at that speed (and have since gotten worse, but not to the point I can't hold a lane on the Interstate, but rutted city streets can be fun, not).

Congratulations on your 1000th post. It's not so much how much you say, but what you say, that matters!
 
Husker6.5 said:
Last winter I made a 50 mile run on I-88 at 95-100 mph
How you didn't find an Illinois state cop I'll never know... :eek:
Congratulations on your 1000th post. It's not so much how much you say, but what you say, that matters!
Click to expand...

What are you trying to say about post counts? :dunno:



:hihi:
 
btfarm said:
What are you trying to say about post counts? :dunno:



:hihi:
Click to expand...

I've found your posts to be quite informative and to the point. You have quality as well as quantity! As for the run on I-88, it was about 3 in the afternoon New Year's Eve and the fog had just lifted and we were about three hours behind schedule for making it to Chicago to check into the hotel and make it over to Buddy Guy's Legends to see a friend (and neighbor) of mine, Magic Slim and his band the Teardrops headline the NYE show that night. So I put the hammer down and don't know why we didn't run into some of Illinois' finest, but boy were my eyes peeled looking (no radar detector)! As it was, we missed the FAC, got checked in at the hotel and changed, and got there in time to get the last available table at 7PM and catch John Primer's band opening show at 8PM and got to see Buddy Guy sit in with Magic Slim to bring in the New Year for 2011. Caught both sets, closed Buddy Guy's at 2AM, then went over with Magic Slim and the Teardrops to the Kingston Mines and caught the last two bands there and closed the place at 4AM!
 
Mike K3500 said:
I'm excited and anxious to see and hear you report back Paul... Just don't take a year or so to get your engine done and installed like me... LOL
Click to expand...

It will be in and running before mid April. Just waiting on ordered parts. Time, for a change, is something I have plenty of.
 
I've been talking with Bill and have a "place holder" reservation for taking a ride in Joe Heath's K2500. It is equipped with a 6.5 that was recently rebuilt with the HP#3 Cam Kit, Max E Tork P3 tune, GM-4, Turbo-Master, 3" DP & 4" exhaust, mandrel bent Cross Over, the Uncle Bob Rockers (rebuilt OEM units with Brass Buttons) and yet, is till running the stock air box. Before heading up there, I'll do a couple of runs in my truck, which really is pretty much stock with the GM-5 save for the Peninsular Intake, Heath CAI, Turbo Master and Max E Tork Economy tune, and try to get video of what mine does in terms of 0-80, 60-80 with the hammer down and rolling into the throttle. That will give an indication as to the time it takes to get to speed and what the tac vs speedo looks like. Then I'll get some comparison data on similar type runs, maybe a video, of Joe's and have something to compare and document. If that thing runs as advertised, I may have to retake any video though. You know, so if I involuntarily imitate the Geico Pig "WEEEEEEE" it won't be witnessed by you good people. Not that you'd make any derisive comments or anything (like circling vultures that some of you are:cheers2:).

Keeping in mind that Bill's area will be about 1500' lower in elevation and my truck is about a 1000# lighter at 5700 w/ 3/4 tank of fuel. At least I'll have a base line for when the new motor goes in and is broken in but, that's another thread.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top