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Batteries

Yeah. But I won't hide it, figure ask $1000 and let them cut it about in half? Other parts a great and no rust.
(except turbo housing has pin hole in it)

My son says there is a kid here in town that loves these ol MB diesels- I can see why. It's like the car version of 6.2/6.5. If it didn't have the problem, I could sell it for $4,000. Which isn't bad considering it has cost maybe $1,000 total repair and oil changes (can't remember tire cost) for around 100,000 miles use and we bought it for $5,500. Plus the thing gets over 30 mpg. If it weren't for possibly making me late to work I would just run it till the thing falls apart, then sign the title, pull the optima, and walk away with it on the roadside. That is If I was 200 lbs or under, or didn't mind bending while twisting my back, It would be great. The car seats anyone 6'4" no problem in front seats and 6' in rear. But squatting down to get in it and trying to stand out of it is what sux. No crying on my part- It done me good.
 
So an update. Always wanted to see how the Odyssey Extreme AGM would do. Dealing with GM's OnStar battery killer has brought this back up for me via a couple of family members toasted batteries.

So family tried an Odyssey Extreme 75-PC1230 in a Hummer H3 that OnStar likes to randomly kill with month long parking times. Think it's OnStar as that appears to be a known-known and the fuse hasn't been located due to far-far away location and other family factors. Not even AZ heat out east where it's at so one factor down. Battery is about 4 months old and it's first overdischarge. Family went to start it after sitting 2 weeks:

"It's Dead, Jim." One Jump start, 20 min drive time, and the next stop the tow truck HD jumper cables couldn't bring it back. ~8.x V and, yeah, a warranty exchange. A battery kill switch (disconnect) will be put in to Overkill Brute Force solve the problem of having to put the H3 on the hook over a dead battery. After hours with places closed, ordering the not as common Extreme version... all lead to use of well funded Roadside Assistance: "Just tow it".

My conclusion is Page 12 in the Odyssey Extreme Manly Manual PDF attached here is Marketing Bull S#it as the test results are NOT repeatable. "a" means ONE New battery. Las Vegas odds for "a" battery to survive a overdischarge. Reality be "house favored odds" that overdischarge on an 'in use' battery will simply stay dead with shorted cells combined with severe sulfation. At least they can't deny warranty because it's supposed to survive this. :woot:

(C) Can the battery recover from deep discharge conditions?

Yes, the ODYSSEY battery can recover from extremely deep discharges as the following test results demonstrate.

(1) German DIN standard test for overdischarge recovery

In this test, a PC925 was discharged over 20 hours (0.05C10rate)2 to 10.20V. After the discharge2 a 5Ω resistor was placed across the battery terminals and the battery kept in storage for 28 days.

At the end of the storage period, the battery was charged at 13.5V for only 48 hours. A second 0.05C10 discharge yielded 97% of rated capacity, indicating that a low rate 48-hour charge after such a deep discharge was insufficient; however, the intent of the test is to determine if the battery is recoverable from extremely deep discharges using only a standby float charger.

A standard automotive charger at 14.4V would have allowed the battery to recover greater than 97% of its capacity. (Really?! You test and show this somewhere?)

These test results prove that ODYSSEY batteries can recover from deep discharge conditions. Reinforcing this conclusion is the next test, which is even harsher than the DIN standard test, because in this test the battery was stored in a discharged state at a temperature of 122°F (50°C).


Anyway even older before GM decided that live cig lighters 100% of the time were costing too much in roadside assistance ... 2002 Yukon. Left GPS plugged in and on. Won't crank dead battery next day and it recovered. Come to find out it's one of the two Optima's that I gave away after exchanging in 2012.

@Will L. I am looking at a made in 2012 Optima Battery that J.C. Optima would consider "A failure of Today's Value Engineering" as it still works. Yeah, I checked the date code. It has stress cracks at the terminals, but no black leakage signs like the others (out of the 6.5L diesels) I pictured. It only has had the GM terminals used. It's sister battery died (they warranty exchanged it once since 2012 and then lost the receipt I think) with one or more shorted cells in Post #18 on a 454 gas truck from a couple of random drain to overdischarge and little use. (The most miles that 454 gets most years is literally going to the emission test station once a year.) Charged and started now and them, but, not just driven much. One of those an old long bed pickup is useful at times to just have around. Yeah flat spots on inflated tires...

The 2002 Yukon is garaged, light starting load 5.3L gasser, and not driven every day rather 1-3x a week. As other DD gas vehicles have experienced unremarkable short life in this heat with Red Top Optima's I am seeing an "oddball" that has lasted nearly 4x normal 2 year battery life out here. Garaged and not a DD is clearly a big reduction in extreme heat exposure.


 

Attachments

  • US-ODY-TM-002_1214.pdf
    907.5 KB · Views: 2
FellowTraveler said:
I can't open the bottom link, is this the doc?
Click to expand...

No, it's a direct link to the Odyssey web site Adobe PDF document on the web that I also attached. Page 12 talks about overdischarge recovery.

The overdischarge is a really harsh test and rather a "new different problem" than the problems I have with the dual bat setup on the 6.X and Duramax diesels: They just die without the help of overdischarge. Hope for long battery life and only rarely get it anymore (- anywhere). Although I say it's a new problem ... again back in the early 1990's I had an Optima that I regularly overdischarged for a CB radio in the house. When I put that Optima in the car a used 8D battery replaced it. I wouldn't even think of doing this to an Optima today. Early 90's, before the internet was a thing, who knew that how deep the discharge went would directly affect battery life...

I am trying out a set of Concorde Lifeline 6v Golf Cart batteries for the RV. So far they have survived a harsh winter here with heavy heater use (over 50% DOD) because winterizing an RV in Phoenix, AZ apparently is a joke. Only ice I found in the system was at the black tank flush inlet so the heated water system/tanks survived unhurt. (Opened the hose plug and a chunk of ice falls out. Luck was no damage.) As the total heat on them is less than in the engine bay I expect they may last.

https://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/t...it-2-lifeline-gpl-4ct-agm-6v-batteries.47069/
 
Any battery- lead acid, agm,Lithium, etc-
They all will have the longest life if kept fully charged.

There is a chart that shows what type of battery, how far down and for how long it is - how much that shortens life.

I’ve got a friend that manages a fleet of 250 pickups. All they run is the optimas (guess who got him to try that) and they have one of the wazoo optima chargers. He said after using that charger for about a year, he bought one for home. Says it brings back dead batteries better than anyone he has ever used- for agm and wet batteries. He has 3 pickups, couple cars, boat, 4 wheelers, and takes care of his kids rigs.
Suppose thats what i’ll get when/if my 1992 craftsman charger dies.
 
Will L. said:
Any battery- lead acid, agm,Lithium, etc-
They all will have the longest life if kept fully charged.

There is a chart that shows what type of battery, how far down and for how long it is - how much that shortens life.

I’ve got a friend that manages a fleet of 250 pickups. All they run is the optimas (guess who got him to try that) and they have one of the wazoo optima chargers. He said after using that charger for about a year, he bought one for home. Says it brings back dead batteries better than anyone he has ever used- for agm and wet batteries. He has 3 pickups, couple cars, boat, 4 wheelers, and takes care of his kids rigs.
Suppose thats what i’ll get when/if my 1992 craftsman charger dies.
Click to expand...
So, your charger is fairly new then?
 
jrsavoie said:
So, your charger is fairly new then?
Click to expand...
My charger is a Craftsman about 2.5 years old fully automatic and it can't charge the AGM's when they are down on the low however; if I let the batteries sit being charged on automatic mode the charger stops charging and indicats the batteries are filly charged when they are not.

If my memory serves me right Odyssey claims the 1500 series AGM's can sustain 400 cycles when drawn down to 30% I'm @ about 7% to 8% of that so its a specialized battery charger ($200 to $300) or finding and old school type to bring them back into service.
 
FellowTraveler said:
My charger is a Craftsman about 2.5 years old fully automatic and it can't charge the AGM's when they are down on the low however; if I let the batteries sit being charged on automatic mode the charger stops charging and indicats the batteries are filly charged when they are not.

If my memory serves me right Odyssey claims the 1500 series AGM's can sustain 400 cycles when drawn down to 30% I'm @ about 7% to 8% of that so its a specialized battery charger ($200 to $300) or finding and old school type to bring them back into service.
Click to expand...
FellowTraveler said:
An ole timer pointed out that I maybe able to charge the AMG's with my charger by connecting them to a good battery and charging them through the good battery..........
Click to expand...

Modern chargers will not turn on for safety reasons if the battery is overdischarged. I believe the safety cut out is around 10V because a shorted cell will present 10.x volts on a 12v battery. Around 12.6 -12.8v temperature dependent is full charge on a battery that has sat for 4+ hours without any load. 12.0V is consitered flat dead. Anything below 12.0V is overdischarge and/or one or more shorted cell(s).

Again Modern Battery Chargers have cheap chips that can prevent the following: Safety Issue, fire, explosion, etc. Around 1992 the technology wasn't there or cheap enough yet.

Putting a live 12v battery with 900+ CCA available on a dead battery has it's own risk. Regardless this brings the voltage the charger sees up past the safety cut out and the overdischarged battery can now charge. IMO this 900+ CCA 2 battery procedure is more risky on a shorted cell dead battery than an 6AMP "old school" charger.

I have had a battery in a gas vehicle simply bang the starter in and the battery burned a connection in itself open. The dual battery post failure in a 6.5 where the GM terminals burned open but the top post worked make me glad the batteries are not in the passenger compartment on my stuff.

Video is an old charger attempting to bring a shorted cell overdischarged battery back to life. The safety vents hissing loudly are letting us know they are working hard. Note the open door in this video to let the Hydrogen Gas dissipate. Note I shouldn't be this close to a battery in this kind of distress because the battery blowing up would be a Darwin Award video example: along with the hydrogen gas explosion risk. The explosion concussion esp. in a closed space can alone be enough to BOOM! --> R.I.P.

 
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Interestingly enough, I bought 2 Sears Die Hard (Rebranded Oddesey) AGM batteries 6 years ago... About 1 month ago I went out to start truck, nothing... I put my smart charger on it, set it to winter snowflake mode and left charger on it for a day. It seems to have charged it up... But the AGM batteries just fell off a cliff. Either worked and started truck, or did not... No middle ground... My fingers are crossed, but I am prepped to buy 2 new batteries at a moments notice...

Charger is a CTEK 7002 model... AGM batteries use the snowflake mode to charge.
 
I know this is a old thread but I'm bringing it back up.........

My dually batteries are 5yrs old, the truck sits covered in the barn most of it's life, I try and remember to crank it every month but it seems it takes me a few months to remember that part.. It doesn't have a bit of trouble cranking on the first hit even sitting 3 months, that is until now, the batteries are low so I charged them a few days, truck fires up first hit, but the cranking speed is somewhat slow so it's about time for a new set..

I'm leaning towards the Yellow top deep cycle, are they still considered to be a good battery, they aren't cheap but nothing good these days is...

 
I also like the Odyssey's....

shop.odysseybattery.com

78-PC1500

<b>ODYSSEY Extreme Series Battery Model 78-PC1500<br> (Group 78 with 3/8 inch threaded side receptacles) <br></b> <br> Whether for everyday or emergency use, today's vehicles are loaded with more electronics than would have been imaginable just a few years ago. ODYSSEY batteries have been...
shop.odysseybattery.com
 
I ran the Odyssey AGM batteries. They were OK. When they start to go out, I found that they just drop off a cliff. No real warning.
I replaced with regular lead acid batteries. I couldn't justify the extra cost of the AGM batteries. And I don't feel they lasted as long as traditional batteries.
Just my 2 cents...
 
Twisted Steel Performance said:
I also like the Odyssey's....

shop.odysseybattery.com

78-PC1500

<b>ODYSSEY Extreme Series Battery Model 78-PC1500<br> (Group 78 with 3/8 inch threaded side receptacles) <br></b> <br> Whether for everyday or emergency use, today's vehicles are loaded with more electronics than would have been imaginable just a few years ago. ODYSSEY batteries have been...
shop.odysseybattery.com
Click to expand...
I would behoove you to use a thermal battery cover on these batteries when used w/6.5td IMO.
 
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