Batteries

[Will L.]

Optimas:
I've mentioned I have them, and on a hummer forum just recommended them for a guy with a hmmwv, their batteries are under the front passanger seat. Felt like a dicussion here about them- who here had bad experience and themself, not know a guy who knows a guy...
Here is what I just posted over there:
Batteries in the cab- REALLY want to suggest optimas.
If you roll or crash they will never leak.

Everyone praised them until they went to mexico, them problems showed up is the story and not worth having --supposedly.

My current set is going on 9 years old now, my alternator has a bad diode so it has not been consistent charge like it should for some time now. Those two batteries were made in mexico.

Of the 2 that were in my hummer when I bought it in 03, the side post threads melted out on one when my starter went bad and hung up. That battery died a month or two later, but the other one I put in my 1987 Mercedes diesel, and it started the car fine yesterday.

I wandered a bit at the time how much of "bad batteries" was hype over buy USA made. Really getting convinced of it now.

I have seen one swell up bad from a single wire alternator go open field in a diesel ratrod with a 4-71 detroit and the guy ran it that way to see how long it would last. It was charging at 140v dc. He finally swapped the alternator after trying to turn on his headlights and smoking his harness. He kept the battery, and it was still enough to start with just 1 battery. Case never cracked. It never outgassed.

That was the end of my post. In last couple months I bet I've went through 4 times telling people in person. One guy was at the napa with his friend, who told his story of 13+ years in his dodge cummins and said "see its more than just me" His friend decided on an optima. I felt good, justified in my re-discovered opinion of optimas.

Please, what are your expectations and experiences with optimas?

 

[Will L.]

This quote from another thread was replied to me...

Ever hear of these
http://buy.northstarbattery.com/p/nsb-agm-34-78-battery

I haven't found much info on them pro or con. I would really consider these if a couple peolpe I somewhat knew had good feedback. I might call them up and have them "sell me" on them somehow, but after my personal ownership and all the ones we put in fleet rigs that were kept long term- beating optima is going to be a hard nut to crack.

I do try to buy USA made whenever possible wnd they get points for that, and no problem at all buying from our neighbors. Can't think of many made in Mexico things I have owned that were junk, and only a couple made in Cananda things that weren't good products.

Stuff from Europe is usually good product and would be considered, but the stuff thats Oriental continues to under perform and is 95% ruled out for this for my personal use.

 

[Will L.]

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/gene...tions-3.html#/topics/1279586?page=3&_k=vy55nq

 

[NVW]

Several years back I went with my stepson who purchased an Optima deep cycle battery for his camper. It lasted a year, I think he just got a dud as I've never heard much bad about them.

I know you said personal experience but we camp together all the time.

 

[WarWagon]

@Will L. Fixed it for you: "If you roll or crash they will never Spill." Non-Spillable is the exact wording on the Optima Batteries.

In general AGM's have less acid all over the place eating cables. Never "leak" is completely incorrect as Optima Batteries just like common "Dry Cell batteries" in sizes like "D" "AA", "AAA", ect. can and do in fact leak. I regret not taking a photo of one leaking Mexico made unit at the end of it's pro rated life that lived in a northern cool climate. The cool climate IS the only reason it made it that long under the hood. I had replaced the battery cable thinking the last battery, not an Optima, was the cause. It corroded the new cable and the battery pan under it. Because I did not have the original receipt, it came with the used pickup, Jonson Controls' Optima wasn't doing 10 cents of warranty on it.

Hint: per a call do not pound the post cable clamps on Caveman Style as this can crack the glass seal around the posts. Not applicable to crack failure I note here.

Warranty requires the original receipt: no exceptions. Everywhere like Jim's Hot Dog stand sells Optima batteries. This doesn't mean you can get warranty everywhere Optima's are sold! The part number is slightly different specifically Interstate and other chain parts stores. Optima who could approve a different part number warranty claim isn't around on weekends when Jim's hot Dog stand is closed. You can go pound sand, oh wait, you can't because your battery in the offroad toy is dead. Nevermind the commercial vehicle you need to be fing running Sunday night early Monday at 2AM to deliver parts. Frankly "Good Luck" if you use an online only store to get an Optima to track down who carries that exact part number. (No same group number etc, different part number.)

Relocate batteries to a cooler location is a good idea for longer life. Under the seat is a slightly cooler environment than under the hood on the "wrong side" of the engine cooling fan. (I have cleaned up pop cans that will explode in the hot vehicle interior.) Ever see windshield washer fluid boil in the reservoir under the hood like in the little red truck that couldn't in Death Valley *Cough* LLY *Cough* *Cough*? Hard working LMM's are famous for cooking off the passenger side battery first. Daily Driver's getting double digit MPG need not comment on the heat issue due to the lower total heat under the hood because a cheaper flooded cell can last just as long. Seriously you don't choose AGM's because they last longer: you choose them for less acid fumes and acidic buildup on and around the batteries, different mounting angles, lower self discharge rate or 1 year vs. 30-90 days, higher CCA's for longer esp. after warming up the glow plugs and cranking for say the 3rd time, and vibration resistance.

Here are some pictures of Optima's starting to leak at the posts from cracks - the post that cracked was not used as the burb this was from has GM side terminals. I have had several Optima's fail like this in the past 6 years. I returned for refund all I could and gave away the last two Optima's I had with receipts from the last "exchange" of them.



Even in light duty gas engine DD SUV I had this cracking. Jonson Controls absolutely cheapened up the original design that made Optima's Legend. Part of this bean counter "cheap" is changes to the ingredients or leaving some out, and moving the manufacturing to Mexico. I watched the Aurora, Colorado version of the battery become Legend in the early 90's as they were the only thing that would last on air cooled diesel light plants. The vibration of those noisy beasts would ruin other batteries quick. Optima Batteries started outlasting the engines that ran every night 365 on a construction project in Colorado.

Other AGM's don't even pass Consumer Reports heat tests like the relabeled Deka AGM's I tried. Maybe one day I will try some Odyssey's. Meanwhile I exchange the flooded cell stuff every year and am lucky to make it into year two on the diesels. Cooler gas engine DD's make it longer.





As neither brand of AGM could take the heat they have been kicked out of my kitchen.

 

[FellowTraveler]

I'm considering relocating my Odyssey batteries into the interior or up under the passenger side chassis rail which would require a thermal barrier to reflect radiant heat from roadway. Thermal products like a battery blanket works fair, venting so while in motion air can enter directly and over the under-hood batteries is a good idea IMO.

 

[deejaaa]

i have never had personal experience with them. i have had good luck with wet cells so i see no reason to change.

 

[SnowDrift]

I recently hunted for batteries, again. I got 6-1/2 years out of a MegaTron Plus. I was ticked off but considered it might be a fluke, so I'm giving Interstate a chance, once more. I shopped for AGMs and looked heavily at the Optima, but learned their quality has suffered greatly in recent years. Crown was one brand that came up, but I learned from a local Crown dealer that he doesn't have good luck with that Crown battery, if in a vehicle that sits on occasion. He claimed that a daily driver is fine, but they're not good sitters. Since I rarely know when I might have a vehicle sitting for weeks on end, it's not a good fit for me.

The Interstate 78 series in an AGM was +$230, but I couldn't convince myself it would last 12-15 years.

I do have an Odyssey in my ATV and love it. The cost for the size I need for my truck, though, made it out of reach for me for now.

I stuck with a MegaTron Plus 800CCA/1000CA.

I'm not sure an Exide is any different, though. Both made by Johnson Controls, I think. If it's the same battery, then it comes down to the "look". There's just something comforting about opening a hood and seeing a big white label that says "INTERSTATE" (even better when it's a diesel and there are two).

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

Years back I had a redtop go flat sitting for 3 months while we did engine work. It was an almost brand new battery, left sitting on a piece of wood, and went stone flat dead. Replaced it, and the new one(mexico made) went just as quick without sitting. Tried a blue top in my boat and after 3 months it barely had enough juice to start a 25HP SUZUKI outboard. Had another set I put in a boat used(less than 10 months old), and 1 went flat 1st trip out. No more Optima's for me.

 

[FellowTraveler]

I recently hunted for batteries, again. I got 6-1/2 years out of a MegaTron Plus. I was ticked off but considered it might be a fluke, so I'm giving Interstate a chance, once more. I shopped for AGMs and looked heavily at the Optima, but learned their quality has suffered greatly in recent years. Crown was one brand that came up, but I learned from a local Crown dealer that he doesn't have good luck with that Crown battery, if in a vehicle that sits on occasion. He claimed that a daily driver is fine, but they're not good sitters. Since I rarely know when I might have a vehicle sitting for weeks on end, it's not a good fit for me.

The Interstate 78 series in an AGM was +$230, but I couldn't convince myself it would last 12-15 years.

I do have an Odyssey in my ATV and love it. The cost for the size I need for my truck, though, made it out of reach for me for now.

I stuck with a MegaTron Plus 800CCA/1000CA.

I'm not sure an Exide is any different, though. Both made by Johnson Controls, I think. If it's the same battery, then it comes down to the "look". There's just something comforting about opening a hood and seeing a big white label that says "INTERSTATE" (even better when it's a diesel and there are two).

It took me awhile to jump on the Odyssey's but it has been great so far.....

 

[Will L.]

The deka has a horrible standing anywhere there is heat, not just WarWagon's experience.

Ive been seeing mixe responses on odyssey. About 3/4 people saying tood luck, 1/4 replacing them just after 2 years.

Most of the guys I know running them around here use them in variety of DD cars and trucks, and started by using them in their rock crawlers, off road trucks, etc.
The guys working in the fleets that are still running them get better life from them than most wet batteries still.

I have seen the warranty fight WarWagon talks about, but ones bought in a brand store like napa, then returned to napa had no issue. Same with Oriellys. Some stores simply refuse to warranty them- The first time i saw it ai thought it was just optima- no it is that retailer. The Mac Tool guy that runs my old route wont warranty anything for anyone that is not one of his current customers.
The reason for the receipt is the red and yellow tops have 3yr free replacement, blue 2 year. You could just shunt the battery at 34 months, get a new one. Then do it again and again for decades. Places like autozone do the same- require your receipt or record of your warranty in their computer system. If they loose you in their computer and no receipt- no warranty. Having owned business that had to deal with a variety of warranty items- I get it. If you have a receipt, any store can choose to warranty- like buy it at napa then oriellys warranty- how many batteries do that? Not many, so when they won't - I don't count that as unusual.

 

[Will L.]

Over the next week or two I'm going to talk to the guys I know out here that have been running them and see how many bailed and who still likes with them.

One thing I have seen is a consistent long run from factory AC Delco batteries, at least group 34. It seems 60% break the 5 year mark, and 10% hits year 8 before dying. I know wet not agm but i bring that up for those not offroading and not mounting batteries inside like hmmwv, vw, or in trunks like chrysler, audi, etc. have done.

WarWagon brought up something in another thread about about batteries- direct engine heat. My Hummer has the batteries in a somewhat isolated position. My Mercedes has a seperated area under the hood. Idk what the best temp for a battery is. I would guess one side getting really hot and the other side cool is probably not the best. It has me thinking about maybe putting a little divider wall in the wife's escalade. Cant see it would hurt. I know in class 7&8 trucks that had the batteries near the engine they did not last long- manufacturers quickly went back to a separate battery box. Same with the heavy equipment. There was a fleet I worked at with a komatsu forklift- the battery was a nightmare to change or even jumpstart. It would eat a set batteries every 18 months. All interstate batteries there. When I had to do it the third time, I built a battery box and some longer cables. They get 3 years out of a set now, litteraly doubled the life. Evrytime I stop by to say hi to the guys the owner says "let the komatso buy you a soda" and gets me a drink. He wasn't there once and his secretary did it- said thats a requirement when i come buy.

 

[JayTheCPA]

From the perspective of 'history is not a guarantee of future performance . . .'

Have an Optima in my car trailer (the 'standard' kind, so red top?) that is probably 6 years old (maybe more, I simply do not remember). So far, it is still working the electric jack just fine and only charges when we hitch the trailer. Only reason that I got the Optima was that the local battery 'warehouse' was given am manufacturer's promotion; otherwise I would have gotten a Dekka AGM.

Toward the other vehicles, I usually just go to Costco as last I checked they had a 3 year (non-prorated) warrantee and seem to get 6-ish years out of them. For equipment batteries, I try to get Dekka and they are doing Ok.

 

[GM Guy]

I get along great with AC Delco Professional Gold 78DTs

I have wondered about Oddesey though.

Also get along good with Deka, had a set come in a pickup and they are still strong, and there has been a few in the farm equipment and they get along good as well.

 

[FellowTraveler]

I know any AGM battery requires PWM charging which the GM's use in all their gen/alt since the late 1980's.

PWM for stand alone chargers for AGM too.

 

[Will L.]

Well the run is done. Wednesday after work, the optima needed a jumpstart for the Mercedes. There was a touch of oxidation on the cables, and maybe I could have done the add a wet battery inline and charge it for a few hours to bring it back to life. But I figured it isn't worth me being late to work.

I did put a thermometer next to the battery in the Mercedes and checked it after several short and long drives. It stays almost 10 degrees cooler than the engine area is all, so no big difference there.

Looked at the date on the Mexico made optima 12/02. So 14 years and a 3 months. Could have maybe went longer, but It already outperformed every single battery I have ever owned, or better than any other brand in the thousands of fleet rigs I wrenched on I figured. So sitting there waiting for my wife to arrive for the jump start, I called to the shop where we first started putting them in the fleet. We tagged the first 10 trucks that got them for cost comparison, 4 trucks are still in the fleet. All 4 still running the original optimas that I installed over 17 years ago according to the records. T said " Hell, one is getting a trans swapped in right now, be back on the road in an hour." So I asked him to go look at the battery to make sure. Yep, one from the Mexico plant. Apparently I attached a note- notify me when this battery gets replaced- optima #1 in test. Haha. I was playing with a new laminating machine we got. 5 were sold off due to repair costs not being worth keeping or mileage, 1 was a total in crash. All 6 never received another battery while owned in the fleet.

That cinched it for me. Stopped by Oriellys and bought a new yellow top for the MB.

I think most people don't know optimas were being made in Mexico and USA from the beginning. I also think many people were butt hurt that they closed the US plant. Johnson Controls that closed the US plant produces 1/3 of car batteries in the world, said why if you look it up. EPA and better quality control-that is why they closed the plant. Optima tracked the failures pre and post US plant closing- guess what--- failure rate actually went down, not up. I believe in buy made in USA, but I also believe in buying the highest quality product I can afford. I don't believe in lambasting a company without data to back it up, which is what I believe happened to Optima. -They closed our plant so we spread rumors of poor quality from the other country.

Johnson controls doesn't need the optima line- they make more batteries than any other 3 competitors combined. It is 1 of many lines for them. They closed because of EPA worsening it's requirements which would have doubled the price of the battery AND because quality control was better in Mexico. That is their statement, look it up. Sorry but we have all seen workers get complacent on the job and looks like they rode the gravy boat to the grave.

Almost all auto battery mfr in US is over. Research lead mining and refining in US- done- last I heard 2 companies left out of hundreds, almost a thousand.

Maybe Trump comes down on EPA to still keep things safe, but level the playing field for businesses in the US to be able to be competitive. Then maybe Johnson Controls might open US plants again?

Then maybe Optima will be worth owning again- not a "piece of junk" a battery which BTW still charges faster, discharges slower, extends alternator life better, holds stored charge longer, and outlasts other batteries by years- sometimes a decade longer.

IMO Optima is the best battery. Willing to try any free samples, but if I have to pay, you know what I am buying.

 

[deejaaa]

wow! great endorsement. all i've ever heard is bad, but was always second hand. thanks for clearing the haze.

 

[WarWagon]

The Rumor is JC cheapened them up when they went 100% to Mexico. Mexico is only 1/2 the story as the other half is removing what made them last. Frankly in both gas and diesel I have seen miserable short life from them since 2002. I would say heat has some to do with it, but, a battery I had used in Colorado quickly went flat when I gave it away during a new truck trade in. I used to recommend them from past performance in the 1990's and can't due to continuous failures. If you want a not covered in acid from the vents spitting battery that can be mounted in any position then there is a reason to get one as long as it doesn't crack at the posts and leak anyway. I can't justify the 2x cost with the miserable life and warranty hassle.

Again "Longer life" especially in hotter weather IS NOT A REASON TO BUY THEM ANYMORE!

Here is one of the last two I gave away. Infrequently used in a 1993 gas 454 truck. Shorted cell and the 25 year old battery charger is one that would recover Optimas (from bad battery piles in the 90's) as it doesn't have the low voltage do not charge safety in it. Hint: this is why new chargers have the safety cut off in them.

I recovered one battery out of a bad battery pile around 1992 and used it to power a CB in the house in Colorado. (Likely served on one of the said air cooled diesel light plants and went dead due to running out of fuel or engine failure.) Ran it dead many times. I then used it in a Olsdmobile for a year in New Mexico. It finally gave up in 1995 with no reserve life - it would start the car, but, you could not listen to the radio for 10 min before doing so. One of the batteries that lived up to and made the Optima reputation. Nowadays the deep discharge appears to kill an Optima dead.

 

[Will L.]

The fleet I called that I used to work at did, and still runs tons of chevy trucks- gas and diesel. They have never stopped using Optimas since the first ones I put in. They run the factory battery till it dies, then swap with Optima yellow tops. Many of the trucks loke service trucks have components that need the yellow instead of red, so every one gets yellow just to stock 1 type. In all the trucks they went through, he said they have had about 6 go bad. Afaik, they still buy 10 trucks every month. That is some good numbers in my book. There will be bad ones, and it could be the ones in Mexico have changed- but according to them it is the same process and specs they have always done except now they come with extra mounting tabs.

I have seen one of them crack at the top post like yours did, but it was on a 5ish year old battery and we emailed a picture to customer service and told them this battery mounted at an angle with the posts facing downward. They sent a credit for $100, and the rest was on my friend. I thought that was fair on a battery out of warranty.

On the heat, yes the Mercedes has the divider wall, but it still has the turbo and exhaust right there near it. The trap catalyst on these is 6" from the battery and known to crack heads from the heat (I really should bypass mine 1 day) The engine compartment on it stays way hotter than my hummer. Your ambient temps are higher there, but car design applies way more heat than outside temps.

Dont think I believe they are the perfect battery or that nothing else will ever touch them. I just cant find anything that holds the track record they do.

I looked more into the other agm batteries- but none hold up as long from everyone I found that had actually documented it vs somebody just saying it is better with any details.

I learned a long time ago agm battery cost gets dispursed into alternator life as well. This was reaffirmed by back when I added turbo to the hummer, I tried jumping the alternator pins to figure out which sent tach signal and tring to feed my tcm with it. I smoked a diode in the alt, and about half the time it charges and half nothing. If I were smart I would have fixed it or replaced it with my spare used alt, but I haven't. And I would estimate 20,000 miles since then, and my yellow tops dont seem to care.

The last couple months it is just sitting there and running 120v stuff needed in the front yard through the inverter. Project #872: add Outside 120v recepticles on the 1950's house so my hummer can quit doing it.

Thinking about it now, most everyone that has yellow tops seemed to have the same experience as I seen. Yours are reds, and Ferm mentioned the blue top. Could be something to that maybe? I did have a couple red tops in my 99 6.5, and they had about 5 year run before I swapped one for some reason- can't remember why. Also a red top in my 96 LHS and when my wife gave that car to her brother that one had to be swapped in less than 10 years.

Also all them are group 34/78. Even new one in MB even though a larger battery fits there. Hopefully someone sees a reason why we have success here and others don't.

On the alternators- in the gmt400 and 800s- only 1 in 50 trucks wouldn't make it 500,000 miles with the 1 time battery swap from factory to optima whenever the original died. Transmission failure usually occurs first. What lifespan do you guys see?

 

[Will L.]

So, i just replaced the alternator in the Mercedes. Apparently the battery picture light in the dash doesn't light up when they are bad, they just dont light up when the key first turns on if the regulator is bad in the alternator.
When I bought the alternator at the same place I got the new optima from, same guy helped me. We spoke, and he took home mybold optima, charged it, and it is now in his boat- still good- DOH!!

I know better than assume a battery- I just didn't follow the proper rules. My bad. So the old optima still lives on. He said he would let me know when it dies, but I only know the guy from buying a few parts there,so we'll see. Just interesting that it is still alive.