ATT Fun Video

[6.5L]

Woah. Sorry guys. Didn't mean to start anything here. The whole point of the video was just to have a little fun and enjoy my pickup, and it turn managed to answer some questions about smoke.

 

[NVW]

So you have an experimental turbo with a bigger exh housing?

 

[Cumminsfever]

Confused.

 

[Woody35]

Didn't 6.5L have a problem about low boost numbers? It would seem to me the turbo is too big for the fuel he is putting out so the turbo is never being spooled up all the way causing the black smoke. This is of course if everything is timed correctly and mechanically sound on the engine.

 

[Slim Shady]

Hey nothing was meant by my post just trying to get some information out, since the smoking seemed to be an issue. There are a lot of things happening with the Turbo. I have been grateful to 6.5 and his dad. They are spectacular people and we are working on getting some consistent data regarding some housing variations.

6.5 and his dad are very knowledgeable and I like working with them.It is refreshing to meet someone that takes a common sense approach to why things are.

 

[Edzzed]

I used to get lots of smoke off the line but I had an exhaust leak on the drivers side at the donut. Since that has been fixed boost comes up incredibly quicker than before the fix. Now I get minimal smoke. http://s130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/edzzed/?action=view¤t=ztruck012.mp4 on this vid if you stop it when you see the egt gauge is shows the temp to be almost 1100 and that's unloaded http://s130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/edzzed/?action=view¤t=ztruck011.mp4 . I haven't done any run to see what egt's are now that the exhaust is fixed. And turbo lag is minimal now, in fact it's not much different that the gm8

Just to clarify, both these vids were pre exhaust fix. I cannot find the little camera cord to upload any new videos, not that I have any as of yet.

 

[turbonator]

GUYS just so everyone is clear, there are / is some testing going on. This housing is the larger exhaust housing and is not the normal A-team exhaust housing. So that may account for some of the smoke (which by the way is not much in my opinion). We are dealing with a mechanical pump and there is no altitude compensation, nor is there altitude compensation in the electronic DS4 pump. So that being said unless fuel is adjusted anything can be made to smoke especially a manual transmission truck at pedal to the floor.

Automatics tend to smoke much less than the manual transmissions, so we should really take into consideration the whole picture when throwing around that mine smokes less than yours. We are already at 3600 to 3700 feet where most of you are at sea level, not Paveltoz. And I am not sure how much smoke is cleared up by having different smaller turbine housings, 14 cm versus the larger A-Team Turbo. So there are comparison variations that really need to be noted when making the comparisons to spool time how much smoke mine clears and similar comparisons.

As far as what 6.5 said I agree that the A-team Turbo boost differently, it boosts by heat rather than the exhaust pressure. from my understanding there has not been any comparison of drive pressures on the HX knock off and A-Team. Those would be nice for comparisons and once again two vastly different exhaust housings, and not the normal A-team Housing, just something to test. So lets look at this as an experiment and if comparisons are to be made lets do it in a manner that lays out all the facts for those that may not be in the know. Thanks Slim

dont worry slim, i had a big argument and name calling match with robzombie over at the place about taking the drive pressure, in which he mentioned that the CKO-40 is the best turbo ever(his words), but as of yet no drive pressure readings.... IMO i think that the drive pressure for it is quite high, less than a gm-8, but how much is yet to be said... the way it builds boost right of the line, i figure it is high.... with our H1C (18cm2 housing) nongated, we see WOT 20-25 psi boost, and 1:1.2-3 drive pressure... on the highway at 90km/hr, it boosts around 2-4psi depending on conditions.... i believe that the sacrifice in spool-time( not alot at all 1300-1375rpm) the nongated turbos are all around better for towing, but not "sports-car" acceleration..... i can accept that for economy and work any day..... i have not seen or heard, but what do the CKO-40 boost at cruise for boost? if any more than 5 psi it is not very efficient, with high drive pressure.....

 

[6.5L]

I actually believe the housing is still ultra manageable. There is very little smoke as far as I'm concerned, and once loaded it builds up enough boost to clear up all the fuel and pulls hard all the way to redline. And thank you for the kind words Slim. I can always say the same to you

 

[turbonator]

with our holset we have a puff at the start, then it clears up enough that we do not see it. we are running a .310 plunger pump, with a ground leafspring (read maxed) and 4000rpms.....

 

[6.5L]

Sounds like a running machine

 

[6.5L]

BTW this turbo doesnt spool slow either. 0-85 I am only about a second slower than my friends 2000 Powerstroke 7.3L. His is stock, but still very respectable from a 1993 mechanical 6.5L. The turbo ain't that slow of spooling

 

[turbonator]

Sounds like a running machine

we need to do a vid, its been crazy busy around here, but we will get one soon.... the batt. for the camera is only good for about 1:25, so we will make it count...LOL....

 

[tanman_2006]

I'm ok with that smoke level! I'd run that all day long as long, as it doesnt billow smoke loaded then who cares.

 

[6.5L]

No. It is very respectable levels I think for as hard as I was pushing it with a manual mechanically injected truck

 

[Slim Shady]

Like I said a lot has been misconstrued about the A-Team Turbo, I wouldn't go as far to say it is the best turbo ever, but you do get mileage gains of 1 to 3 mpg almost everyone has had mileage gains, Spool time is not much different that the gm 8 and you can always add performance enhancements and the A-Team Turbo will handle them without a problem.

I believe and it is my opinion that a turbo that regulates boost pressure by bleeding off exhaust around the turbine wheel is running a higher drive pressure. I could be wrong but from working on industrial stationary motors that run at fairly constant speeds where loads vary, these engines run the same type turbo as the HX knock off, they bleed exhaust based on compressor housing pressure (boost), efficient for stationary constant rpm motors where the load changes and rpm stays constant, but maybe not so efficient for varying load and rpm motors.

I also would be worried about over speed on the turbine wheel and compressor, running a housing that requires a bleed off to maintain a safe boost level. If the waste gate fails on one of the HX knock offs does boost still bleed off or does it fail closed and you could reach unsafe boost levels under load? How available are parts / rebuild kits and who sells the repair kits if something is needed/ All reasonable questions.

Have there been any mileage gains associated with other turbos? Drive pressure is always nice to know. All questions That we were asked and eventually the numbers were found for one turbo.

 

[6.5L]

Between the injectors and ATT, I am definitely happy/impressed with the mileage I'm getting at constant 2500rpm. I can't argue with it one bit. A few simple upgrades landed me a very reliable and powerful 6.5L. Courtesy of Slim. You have my thanks

 

[JiFaire]

The two turbos are definitely different; they each appear to have strengths and not too many weaknesses. As I said earlier, I am really looking forward to Bruce testing the ATT on Brutus ... we will find out a lot at that time. Maybe the ATT pulls better - or maybe not. Maybe the HX spools faster - or maybe not. Maybe one of them gets better mileage, or has more power, or hits overboost easier - or maybe not.

I, for one, appreciate Dennis' and Bruce's willingness to share and experiment for our benefit, and I think we're seeing enough other happy users on both sides of the driveway to keep the mutual respect we've built around here.

Let's keep the speculation down until we are in a position to draw some data-informed conclusions, shall we?

 

[6.5L]

Either way, the results are gonna be great. I agree. All in all, both are leaps and bounds I think in the world of 6.5L's. Since no major business really focus's on 6.5L's anymore except probably Heath and maybe 1-2 more, it is nice to have these great people working hard to make the 6.5 reliable and competitive in a place where it seems aftermarket upgrades are few and far between.

 

[JiFaire]

Either way, the results are gonna be great. I agree. All in all, both are leaps and bounds I think in the world of 6.5L's. Since no major business really focus's on 6.5L's anymore except probably Heath and maybe 1-2 more, it is nice to have these great people working hard to make the 6.5 reliable and competitive in a place where it seems aftermarket upgrades are few and far between.

:thumbsup: What he said!

 

[WarWagon]

I am curious what timing the OP is running?

Buddy and I experimented on my 1993 DB2 mechanical IP with the ATT and found that like a 1/4" advance was IMO nuts. Smoked like a freight train and pulled just as hard! I retarded the timing from that to slightly advanced and very close to the line to line. This cut SOTP power and reduced smoke till it was clear at WOT. I am at 2000' altitude. I get 13 PSI in 1st gear and 18 in 2nd on up. More load gets more boost. I could throw more fuel or timing at it to get a light haze. However I get a good harsh rattle on cold start, I have cracks in the main webs, and I would like to see the engine last a little longer so I am good with the less power/timing.

Altitude affects even the GM3 turbo. I smoked the GM3 at 14 PSI just as bad as the video when you get to 7600' and I had to turn the fuel down. The GM3 actually went over 14 PSI becoming a runaway overspeed intake air heater making the hot 300+ degree high pressure air less dense and added even more smoke and melted wiring near the intake.

Recall on NA engines it is common to retard the timing at high altitude. They then drive you nuts smoking white if they go too far retarded.

Don't forget GEP has completely redesigned the 6.5L for the military to be more reliable. More life and suppliers for the engine from that alone.

Wonder if the now heavy armored Hummers would benefit from a larger turbo?