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ATT for christmas

chrisk1500 said:
Really? So vehicles don't come with factory installed tint?

Weird state....legal to marry a cousin but not legal to install tint...LOL!

j/k of course...I don't believe all of the rumors we hear about the South...):h
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Chris... for shame... THIS, coming from an Easterner (Saskatchewan)?

LOL... at least you're not from Manitoba! (oops, sorry Dieseldad97 [Gerald]!)

I meant from Ontario! (oops, sorry Pgguru [Michael]!)

I meant at least you aren't from BC! (oops, sorry, Edzzed [Ed]!)

I meant ... oh never mind. :D
 
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gettin closer
 
Hey coalroller, do you still have the HX35 turbo you took off to replace with the A-Team turbo? Looks nice, looking forward to seeing your videos on it, and you have a nice truck by the way.
 
I really need to get a new turbo. Mine is really in excellent condition, i just need more up hill power.... I like the bolt on function of the ATT. I could use better fuel mileage too. I realy wanted a chip first, but seeing that chips can be tuned in synchro with an att makes me want the new turbo first. I hope my refund check this year is good, i am going to try real hard to get one this spring...
 
Going to Ventura next month then onto Pamona for the Winter Nationals. Empty weight, full of fuel, is 7,500. Not pulling a trailer, just driving. Going to see just what kind of milage I get on the trip down. BUT I will be using the Heath/Snow WMI kit and the Heath propane injection kit. After get to Ventura I will change from the "A" team turbo to the GM-8 turbo for the return trip and will be using the same WMI and propane back to my area. I will be driving at least 66mph which is where the "A" team gives my engine 2 pounds of boost. 2 pounds of boost is where the Heath/Snow 2 stage WMI kit starts the water injection, the second stage starts at 10 pounds of boost. The propane is set to come on at 1 pound of boost and increase as the boost goes up.
 
635 said:
Going to Ventura next month then onto Pamona for the Winter Nationals. Empty weight, full of fuel, is 7,500. Not pulling a trailer, just driving. Going to see just what kind of milage I get on the trip down. BUT I will be using the Heath/Snow WMI kit and the Heath propane injection kit. After get to Ventura I will change from the "A" team turbo to the GM-8 turbo for the return trip and will be using the same WMI and propane back to my area. I will be driving at least 66mph which is where the "A" team gives my engine 2 pounds of boost. 2 pounds of boost is where the Heath/Snow 2 stage WMI kit starts the water injection, the second stage starts at 10 pounds of boost. The propane is set to come on at 1 pound of boost and increase as the boost goes up.
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Not familiar with the route. Is there any significant elevation change difference in running the route out, & then back home?
 
The results of WMI and propane were already published in MaxxTorque quite a while back, but not in combination!

Does WMI and propane work together for better milage, don't know yet?

Will my engine/pickup get good milage with the marine injectors and GL-4, don't know?

Will it climb a long grade better? It probably won't even know it is there!

The GM-8 produces more boost at lower rpm. The "A" team still works better from what I feel with my pickup.

I don't drive fast, just steady. I like 62mph but I need to be going at lest 66mph for the boost to work correctly for the WMI.

I do know 55 and 60 produced 14mpg. At 66mph it got 17mpg.

It should show some good milage results but then again other engines "WILL" show different results. Mine just seems to flow a little better.

When I get back this engine/pickup will hit the rollers. I should know by then how well all the items installed work!

If things work out I will be using my 5th wheel car trailer to haul a 1 ton Chev dually to the east coast. That trip will show how well things work together.
 
Not sure of the area where you live but there are a few little hills on I-5. A few hills in Washington, and a few longer hills in southern Oregon. Over the Siskiyou Summit, a little over 3,000 feet, into California and a few more little hills for the next 100 miles. From Redding, Ca. south to Wheeler Ridge is mostly just a long flat area with very gradual rolling hills. About the only high places along the way are over passes! Then up the Grapevine to Tejon pass at a little ove 4,000 feet and then it is all downhill from there. Turning off onto Hwy 126 to Ventura is mostly flat also.
 
Practically speaking, simply comparing altitude at the endpoints should give some idea of what impact overall altitude change might have. My point wasn't so much the specific ups/downs, but the overall route average.

As an example, from here in Kansas City, I can see some impact of altitude change when driving to Denver, as compared to returning from Denver. Not a huge impact, but it's there. Just something to be aware of when interpreting mileage data.

Looking at the impact of propane on diesel fuel economy (from beyond a mktg effort), requires knowing w/ some accuracy, how much propane was used. I can't help but chuckle when I read articles that point to fuel economy improvements, while simply ignoring the alternate fuel that was burned. Not so shocking the same amount of work done, would require less diesel, when you burn some propane.

Not knocking propane injection, but it's become common to not account for the propane burnt, when such a test is done in relation w/ a vendor of propane systems. Imagine that. Those I know that have a propane system, buy the propane. So when they tell me about it, they rarely forget to mention the cost....

Would also like to hear from independent folks running water injection to get more data points on the fuel economy impact they see in daily use. Again, none of this is said to cast doubt on what you're doing. It's a good thing to measure & compare things.

Nor am I trying to knock these systems. It is said because real-world, cost-effective product benefits can be routinely duplicated by most folks using the systems.
 
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The area I will be driving is just about at sea level, both ways! Not really much change in elevation but I'll be checking my altimeter along the way.

Sent the propane system to make sure it is working correct. Asked how much propane I will be using because I had heard of these large ratios other engines were using. I was told 1 gallon of propane to 18 gallons of diesel. The article in MaxxTorque showed a big increase with the propane in use. Hills and higher elevation to sea level and back. I know the cost of the system is up there but with all I've spent on this engine what was a few more dollars. I wanted to see just what I would/could get for milage. Kind of like spending $10.00 to save a dime!

Yes, heading east from Denver is like driving down hill. But you have to head west sometime!

Trucked all over the country and know a few of the highways.
 
SmithvilleD said:
Practically speaking, simply comparing altitude at the endpoints should give some idea of what impact overall altitude change might have. My point wasn't so much the specific ups/downs, but the overall route average.

As an example, from here in Kansas City, I can see some impact of altitude change when driving to Denver, as compared to returning from Denver. Not a huge impact, but it's there. Just something to be aware of when interpreting mileage data.

Looking at the impact of propane on diesel fuel economy (from beyond a mktg effort), requires knowing w/ some accuracy, how much propane was used. I can't help but chuckle when I read articles that point to fuel economy improvements, while simply ignoring the alternate fuel that was burned. Not so shocking the same amount of work done, would require less diesel, when you burn some propane.

Not knocking propane injection, but it's become common to not account for the propane burnt, when such a test is done in relation w/ a vendor of propane systems. Imagine that. Those I know that have a propane system, buy the propane. So when they tell me about it, they rarely forget to mention the cost....

Would also like to hear from independent folks running water injection to get more data points on the fuel economy impact they see in daily use. Again, none of this is said to cast doubt on what you're doing. It's a good thing to measure & compare things.

Nor am I trying to knock these systems. It is said because real-world, cost-effective product benefits can be routinely duplicated by most folks using the systems.
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I also chuckle about the not including propane costs into MPG figures. I THINK burning the propane allows a more complete diesel burn, so there should be small gains from burning diesel on top of the propane additive alone. However, this must be tough to measure in a controlled labratory enviroment, and next to impossible to measure in an uncontrolled real world driving scenario.

Only long term data sheets, (like the spreadsheet you gave me SmithvillD :) ) will show long term gains subtracting the added cost of propane, vs the would be diesel fuel the cost of propane could buy.

It would be nice if you could run the truck 100% off of propane to get some numbers there too, however i'm not sure if thats possible and/or safe. This is just a sidenote, and not a recommendation, nor suggestion for you to try.

635 That truck should move along with little effort on any grade I would think. I weigh in 2k lbs more than you on a 135k mi stocker, and I can maintain anygrade thusfar at normal highway speeds. The major difference is probably my mileage takes a big hit, where as with the drugs, the more complete combustion all around, and lower temps all around should make heavy/loaded/climbing mileage stay closer to that of flat lands I would think. Not to mention the amount of pedal you have 'left' would be alot, and that truck has to feel really light on its feet.
 
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more progress on the truck. All I got left is the crossover pipe, exhaust and fuel line fitting is being made for the ip for feed the best mod. Should have her goin by the weekend!!! gonna be a lil loud at first lol rite now all I got is the down pipe on so i'm jus gonna run a piece of 4 inch straight back to the bed for a while til I can get some flex to hook up the stacks again.
 
Just a quick note for those who'd appreciate Gale Banks' take on propane & diesels.

http://bankspower.com/techarticles/show/23-Propane-&-the-Diesel

I've read some material where Banks goes into much greater detail on diesel/propane/oxygen interaction in the cylinder. Discusses each fuel's competition for available oxygen & how 2 fuels with different combustion characteristics behave in a combustion ignition engine. In a spark ignition engine, a spark starts all the fuels in the party, burning at the same time. W/ compression ignition, one of the fuels is gonna light before the other, which makes tuning more complex.

Now, back to your pre-hijack thread programming....
 
Well, every man has an opinion, and I dont agree with Banks, and he is obviously biased, trying to sell his setup. I agree with the cost of propane often not being taken into account, but it does typically help more than the cost of the propane, and with more power. When I run it on the interstate, and I drive too fast (80+mph) it still nets me 24-25mpg, when I would have had 20 maybe otherwise, and I dont use but a gallon to 10 gallons of diesel. It only comes on at 4+psi boost. The efficiency is when under load, not driving empty and burning a gallon of propane to 4 gallons of fuel.
 
Using your economy improvement #'s and the current costs of diesel, propane, & a store bought system, how many miles would you estimate the payback on a commercial system to be?

I see the system Kennedy can sell is $625, but don't know what Heath's system costs. Wasn't able to find anything on the Heath site regarding their propane system.

Guess $625 buys ~230 gallons diesel at my local prices. In my truck, that goes ~ 4,382 miles.

Can certainly see playing w/ it for additional power & would expect your system was built for less than $625.

Does the WMI factor into your mileage improvements? That's another system commonly advertised as improving fuel economy, but you don't much data from independent, not having anything to sell to you, type individuals. But would like to.

As with any vendor, would expect Banks' decision on whether to make &/or mkt a propane system to be strongly impacted by the potential profit to be made selling such a system.

Always wanted to ask someone at Fitch fuel catalysts why their product hasn't been utilized by the OEM's? Considering the cost of the product & their testimonial reported economy gains, it's simply tough for me to see the OEM's taking a pass on incorporating this technology into their vehicles. Anybody else think improving the OEM's would be interested in improving their entire vehicle line offering's fuel economy stats by 2 mpg, if they could do so for ~ $200 - $250 per unit (pricing with no 500,000 unit purchase discount no less)?
 
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