Aluminium radiator

[snarl95]

http://www.championradiators.com/Chevy-truck-radiator-1994-2002-diesel

Anyone ever here of them?

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

From what I've read champion is china built stuff. Some of it is really good while some of it is not so good. The jeep guys seem to talk highly of the 2 row models, but they made a 3 row that was a nightmare failing left and right. If the champion one for our trucks is anything like the mishimoto in quality, I would pass. They've had alot of problems with electrolisis, and corroding through after 2-3 years.

 

[Will L.]

Idk jack about the champion radiators, sorry I can't help there.

But on the subject of electrolysis and any radiator that is not plastic...

Run a ground wire from the radiator to the frame, body, and battery. Ideally, all these points would connect at one junction on the frame, Ensure the wire is the same size or larger that goes frame and body to battery so the frame never searches for a ground through the radiator. Such as 4 gauge to frame & body, 12 gauge to radiator.

The moving water through the radiator creates static electricity. It the radiator has a good ground, there can not be any electrolysis it the radiator.

Another spot that is good to add a ground on most engines is the thermostat housing, as it can be isolated from ground and will corode from electolysis.

Most rigs are designed to make mechancal connection to ground, but much care is not given because they usually make warranty before failing.

An additional problem that occurs with the electrolysis is all the negative ions in the isolated radiator is it swings the ph of the coolant and shortens its life as well.

 

[Big T]

From what I've read champion is china built stuff. Some of it is really good while some of it is not so good. The jeep guys seem to talk highly of the 2 row models, but they made a 3 row that was a nightmare failing left and right. If the champion one for our trucks is anything like the mishimoto in quality, I would pass. They've had alot of problems with electrolisis, and corroding through after 2-3 years.

So that overly expensive Mishimoto is not a good radiator?

 

[Will L.]

If electrolysis is the only problem- that is actually a good sign of conductance. Bad for you on the electrical side, but that scientific number is exactly the same for thermal conductance-which means it can shed some serious btu's.

How it is built, how well the seams and joints hold up, how good the air and water flow is - thats what to find out.

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

If electrolysis is the only problem- that is actually a good sign of conductance. Bad for you on the electrical side, but that scientific number is exactly the same for thermal conductance-which means it can shed some serious btu's.

How it is built, how well the seams and joints hold up, how good the air and water flow is - thats what to find out.

So that overly expensive Mishimoto is not a good radiator?

They call it electrolisis, but many have added grounds, new mounts, new body mounts, and so on, and they still fail. I don't know about the current ones, but mishimoto used to be made in Japan and were pretty good, then they moved to china and went to crap, supposedly they changed facilities again, but who knows. Seceral who had mishimotos fail switched to Griffin or Ron Davis, and had no more issues again. With mishimoto, you're paying for that lifetime warranty, that's it. The duramax mishimoto radiators sell for around $700, but you can buy them factory direct sometimes on ebay/amazon for $135-200.

 

[JayTheCPA]

*Now* you tell me . . .

Maybe the Burb will get lucky seeing as it not using water :/

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

*Now* you tell me . . .

Maybe the Burb will get lucky seeing as it not using water :/

I started to buy one when mine started leaking, so I dug in and did some homework, and quickly decided against them. I ended up lucking out and fixxed the leak in mine.

 

[79jasper]

I've seen a lot of talk saying distilled water has a high ph level and will eat aluminum.
Running Evans, probably be fine then.

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[Husker6.5]

I've seen a lot of talk saying distilled water has a high ph level and will eat aluminum.
Running Evans, probably be fine then.
NOPE! Distilled water has a pH of 7, which is neutral. Exposure to air will cause distilled water to pick up minute amounts of CO2 (Carbon dioxide) from the atmosphere, which disolves and becomes carbolic acid making the water very slightly acidic (pH 6.9-6.8).

Minors in Physics and Chemistry, University of Nebraska.

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[79jasper]

I'll have to double check what the arguments were.
Didn't really pay attention, as I'm not running a aluminum radiator. Lol

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[Husker6.5]

Of course tap water can be the death of radiators due to electrolysis because of the disolved calcium and manganese ions ("hard" water) and carbonate ions make it electrically conductive.

 

[Will L.]

I've seen a lot of talk saying distilled water has a high ph level and will eat aluminum.
Running Evans, probably be fine then.

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Any ph of water is easily adjusted, just using swimming pool test strips and the tiniest amount of baking soda from the cupboard if the ph is too low(too acidic).
7.0 is perfect nuetral you desire.

 

[Will L.]

Of course tap water can be the death of radiators due to electrolysis because of the disolved calcium and manganese ions ("hard" water) and carbonate ions make it electrically conductive.

Well, that is arguable. The same minerals and metals that promote electrolisys make it more conductive. That exact conductivity translates to thermal conductivity exaclty the same. If you were to go as far as your electric water heater and install an anode, you would perfectly eliminate any of the problems.- infact- why have I never done this before? I get the mfrs dont care about long rig life- they want to sell a new car every 5 yrs. CRAP!- and EXCITEMENT!!! I am going to figure out an automotive anode for the cooling system.

Anyways- back on track... the minerals and metals are only bad when no grounding is taking place and electrolysis start doing it's damage, and anything that causes these minerals and metals to drop out of suspension. Once it drops out of suspension it then builds up in the system.

There is a lot of information out there, and many people run water that has been distilled, then ran through a reverse osmosis.
A few even run it through a reversing isolator like the one MIT realeased info on a few years ago for removal of 100% of hard water components.
The problem with these is the lowered thermal conductance. It is a trade off to perform slightly less when new, but if maintained properly, it reduces build up. The only thing this doesn't figure in to account is the metals and minerals inside the antifreeze being mix in with this now "perfect water".

Check out all the minerals and metals in any antifreeze/coolant that is water-based and you quickly realize this very expensive water is A waste of time.

A win in the column for Evans? The dropout rate of minerals from the oil is not as bad. I just continue to look at the horrible head cracking we deal with and knowing keeping the metal cooler is the answer. And oil cooling instead of water simply keeps the whole system hotter. The vastly improved metulurgy and thickness of metal along with better coolant chamber area of the p400 heads, I might say ok. But the 6.2/6.5 heads just suck. I love the engine, but they suck. They are WAY probe to cracking from heat.

If I had the chance to do the fleet testing with Evans in the engine and a heat exchanger to keep the flammable stuff out of the heater core I would be glad to try it on my ex-boss's dime.

Back on point of these exact radiators failing... anyone have pictures they can post or links? Radiator failure is not hard diagnosing...Pictures tell the problem 90% of the time.

 

[Husker6.5]

Radiator anode? Already been done 40+ years ago. JC Whitney used to sell a sacrificial zinc anode that hung off of the bottom of the radiator cap into the radiator. Oh, the joys of being old with a memory like fly paper. Fly paper, what's that, asks the young 'uns on here. LOL!

 

[79jasper]

I can't find the specific thread I was looking for.
Of course if was a ford 6.9/7.3 forum. Lol but they're going through the same stuff with hard to find radiators.

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[Jaryd]

Radiator anode? Already been done 40+ years ago. JC Whitney used to sell a sacrificial zinc anode that hung off of the bottom of the radiator cap into the radiator. Oh, the joys of being old with a memory like fly paper. Fly paper, what's that, asks the young 'uns on here. LOL!

Hey, Hey, Hey I know what fly paper is. My grandma has 2 on her back porch right now.

 

[Will L.]

Ok, still zinc anodes around for cheap. I just never thought to put one in these rigs.

Also thinking about a sacrificial(cathode?) to attract any deposits. Hmm.

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

Most any large marine store near a major port has sacrificial anodes in varying sizes. You can get them in the end of a pipe plug(ranging from 1/8" up to around 1" pipe) in varying diameter and lengths. You can get them in regular zinc which is what is used for salt water, but they also make them in magnesium for use in fresh water specifically for electrolisis prevention.

 

[JayTheCPA]

Tried to come up with issues on the Mishimoto. Found some threads from 2013 where it looked like there were QC issues and some reports of mounts for the shroud not lining-up. Am not seeing anything prior or past that.