A reason GM quit the manual transmission

[schiker]

I was talking to a guy from ZF transmissions US offices the other day and I asked him so what is the story you heard on why GM quit the manual transmission. I mentioned rumors I had heard too expensive to go for emission testing for low volume of sales. Bad reputation and problems with dual mass.

I told him GM has really had poor clutches in the last well ..... forever. And asked him why they had all the problems. He said he'd heard it was mostly a marketing and economy issue. Due to volume discount of the auto vs manual and added cost of clutch components (in low volume) the Auto was cheaper to build. And Marketing and sales never corrected the cost/sell difference. So GM was "loosing money" on manual transmissions if they could have sold an Auto.

I said well why didn't they make a better clutch and people would buy them. He said he heard the accountants and management cut the money so tight on the components that the quality suffered. They felt like they were paying the customer to put in a manual transmission. He said the engineers were not happy with the designs and quality but were cut off at the knees due to the numbers. I said did he hear of any flak about it and said not really. And that Ford and Dodge were probably in the same boat on the economy thing.

I said I had sign a few petitions here and there and was disappointed and if he got the chance to let someone know it.

 

[M123KT-450]

If its such a bad money problem why do ford and dodge continue to offer a manual in almost every thing up into and threw the 09/10 model years.

Mike

 

[bobdel01]

dodge and ford arent as broke as gm... sad truth

 

[Ed HD]

Ford and Dodge also don't have automatic tranny's as nice as the allison.

 

[NAR]

Ford and Dodge also don't have automatic tranny's as nice as the allison.

:iagree: I hate hearing fords rev to 3500 just to get moving...

 

[schiker]

If its such a bad money problem why do ford and dodge continue to offer a manual in almost every thing up into and threw the 09/10 model years.

Mike

sorry to post thread opener and not respond I actually goofed putting the thread here. I reposted in GM manual transmission.

I am not saying GM is loosing money selling a truck with a manual transmission. I am saying they aren't making the profit they could have made when they sell an Auto.

I'll venture to add they have had fewer warranty issues with Auto's vs the lame clutches and pedals etc of the last few years. So maybe with warranty claim payments to dealer for labor then could be manuals do bite into the profit significantly.

I am not saying manuals are worse or better but GM has struggled with the clutches for several years now (not the trans itself). The NV4500 is pretty good and the ZF is even tougher. The clutch is the problem for GM IMO.

 

[SSduramax]

I couldn't stand the clutch in my 03 with the gasser in it. and, it had a PLASTIC clutch pedal to top it off.

only kept it about a year. traded it on my 04.5 dmax/allison. still got it

 

[WarWagon]

The refusal for the clutch to disengage the throwout bearing on the S-10 line and burn them out with an irritating sequel is enough for me to say good riddance to GM manual transmissions. Do it right or not at all. Other companies can fill in the void. Some GM auto's are not so strong either.

 

[07HDClassic]

I wish they didn't do away with the manual transmissions. It would have been nice to see more of them in the GM trucks. I've seen a few friends buy dodges due to the ability to get a manual.

 

[83GMCK2500]

I guess it just sucks that we're loyal to the company that puts the best automatic transmission (in the world, imho) into our trucks. I think that the Allison is what killed the option for a manual transmission. It is an incredibly well designed transmission that has, in most cases, replaced the owners' need for a manual.

 

[trouttrooper]

The only gripe I have with my ally is lack of engine braking at slooooow speeds. You just can't beat the granny gear on a manual, and some of these mountain roads require super slow maneuvering in places.

 

[BigBlueChevy]

If I'm remembering this right, I read in an article that the reasons the manual trans is being done away with is due to how many people are buying it. Or actually, how few people are buying them. Ford dropped using a manual behind the 6.4 due to lack of sales. Same with GM. IIRC, out of all the sales GM made with there DMAX trucks, 5% of them where manuals. It just makes more sense to throw an auto behind it if sales aren't good enough.

For those that have seen the movie "cars", "People used to save time to drive, now people drive to save time." Which is entirely true. Most people don't enjoy going out and driving anymore, its just "one more thing to do". then you factor in having to shift in order to drive? I think that's what killed manual trannys behind trucks. Just my opinion but I think that's part of the reason.

 

[btfarm]

The only gripe I have with my ally is lack of engine braking at slooooow speeds. You just can't beat the granny gear on a manual, and some of these mountain roads require super slow maneuvering in places.

Won't T/H work for that? That's what I do when I'm out in Colorado visiting my girls. Or do you mean REAL SLOOOOOWWWWW?

For those that have seen the movie "cars", "People used to save time to drive, now people drive to save time." Which is entirely true. Most people don't enjoy going out and driving anymore, its just "one more thing to do". then you factor in having to shift in order to drive? I think that's what killed manual trannys behind trucks. Just my opinion but I think that's part of the reason.

I love driving my truck. I think nothing of geting behind the wheel and driving all day to go see or visit something or somebody. I drive 60 miles one way to work every day and It doesn't phase me at all. I believe that's a majority opinion here.

 

[88gmctruck]

As you all know, I did away with my Auto for a manual. It's a good change.

I agree the Allison killed the manual transmissions in GM trucks; it's just simply a great transmission. I feel that there is still a need for them in some applications.

 

[trouttrooper]

Won't T/H work for that? That's what I do when I'm out in Colorado visiting my girls. Or do you mean REAL SLOOOOOWWWWW?

Ya, I'm talking under 10 mph going down a 15+% grade on ice/snow on an out-sloping, cliff-hanging mountain road. Last thing I want to do is touch the brakes. End up using 4Lo in those cases with an auto tranny. My older trucks with manuals I just put it in granny gear and inched my way down.

 

[trouttrooper]

I could also argue that when I was shopping for trucks I had a very hard time finding one at the dealerships with a manual. Hard to buy one if they aren't there to even look at.

If I would have had a choice between my truck and an identical one with the manual there's a very high probability that I would have bought the manual. That truck just didn't exist anywhere when I was looking.

 

[07HDClassic]

I could also argue that when I was shopping for trucks I had a very hard time finding one at the dealerships with a manual. Hard to buy one if they aren't there to even look at.

If I would have had a choice between my truck and an identical one with the manual there's a very high probability that I would have bought the manual. That truck just didn't exist anywhere when I was looking.

If I had the decision of my truck or my truck with a manual... I would choose my truck with a manual... and in a 3500 SRW long box version

 

[88gmctruck]

As of now I can do that in my 88. Granny gear in the 1st gen NV4500 is rediculously low, 6.34:1 to be exact. Low range is rediculous with that gear, my crawl ratio is 64:1!!!!

 

[trouttrooper]

As of now I can do that in my 88. Granny gear in the 1st gen NV4500 is rediculously low, 6.34:1 to be exact. Low range is rediculous with that gear, my crawl ratio is 64:1!!!!

Now THAT'S what I'm talking about :thumbsup:

I swear my '84 would crawl right up a tree in 4lo and granny gear.

 

[83GMCK2500]

Now THAT'S what I'm talking about :thumbsup:

I swear my '84 would crawl right up a tree in 4lo and granny gear.

Yup, SM-465 has a 6.55:1 low, and if you had the NP208 there was another 2.61:1. That is what my 83 has and I could probably get out and walk around the truck with it idling along.