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A/C Delco 60G glow plugs

B

Bezzer

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Hi Fellows: It's been a while but still having trouble starting my motorhome. I have a 1996 Safari 6.5L TD engine with 80,000 miles. (attached a picture of motorhome).

When I originally wrote about my problem ......Everyone said to buy 8- A/C Delco 60G glow plugs. I was always told that these would take a little extra time to start the engine.
The engine will start but requires more grinding on the starter. This only happens on the first start of day. And, of course, it draws more power from my one year old batteries.
When we are traveling it starts up every time when we get fuel or stop to eat etc..

I was just checking the internet and found this on Amazon....and other companies are selling these glow plugs also. See the web page and especially the Product Description and left side pictures.


Please let me know what you think about these glow plugs?
 

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Do not go for the amazon ones. guaranteed swelling and possibly destroying the engine. if you are inclined you can splice into the yellow wire from your GP controller and run it to a push button switch to a keyed positive. this will keep the ECM controlling the GP's but when you need an extended time, just hold the button in for a couple more seconds for cold starts. this is how I have mine wired up.

WARNING! with this or any other extended GP time mod, ONLY run the 60G's
 
Thanks for your quick come backs!
Twisted Steel Performance...You mentioned about fuel draining back .... I did put the clear rubber hose looking for bubbles and there were no bubbles after four day and stayed full. Can I assume that would indicate that I have no fuel drain back at this time?

Wreckinball67....Thanks for the Powermaster gear reduction starter- Do you have a part number?

dbrannon79...Could you draw me a quick diagram or maybe a picture to show me about your manual glow mod?
 
Private tests on various glow plugs done in shop by Heath Diesel years ago. 10v power applied to the plugs with timers to see how long they lasted before failure. No name or ‘insta heat’ no name brands lasted maybe an hour or two at best.
60G plugs lasted a a day or so of continuous energizing. One brand who’s lost consumer confidence here and elsewhere since the test was conducted, lasted the week and were shut off before failure so the guys could go home for the weekend. Never failed and the ones you’ve pictured aren’t that brand. This and consumer world of mouth is why the recommendation for 60Gs has remained consistent.
 
As to glow time: you can add a solenoid with a toggle switch. A convenient one is this: https://leroydiesel.com/products/leroys-glow-plug-relay-override/

To determine if more heat helps the start-normally just cycle the key: each time the glow light turns off, turn key off then back on beginning the time again.
When you do this in the first cold start, count the time how long it is on and reply here.
Maybe do a video showing the multiple key cycles and showing light on/off.
How cold is it where you are having the hard starts?
Are you using the block heater?

You can have the ecm (engine control module) reprogrammed for longer glow times. Usually guys do this when they have a different tune installed for a larger turbo (something that would benefit you if you put enough miles on it from improving both acceleration, and mpg) but in itself has no effect on cold starts.
The fact that it starts fine after the initial one tells me sending it in for longer times is probably not worth the hassle or cost. Once the program is changed it will cycle longer every start.

Having a fuel pressure gauge on it to verify maintaining pressure for each start would help. Having the fuel pressure gauge in dash permanently is something I al suggest because loss of fuel pressure ruins the ip (injection pump) which is expensive in part cost and labor. In an rv labor is always the worst. So that would apply to installing the gauge. You have to determine the value. Installing a metal T fitting at the ip, and the pressure sensor there is annoying in a truck- how hard for your rv idk. Your desired fuel pressure with the ds4 ip is 8-14 psi. Almost always adding the gauge leads people to upgrading the lift pump because they realize stock lift pumps are often inadequate. Again an RV has different components frequently so hopefully they already installed something better than the GM pickup unit. Some of the RV I have worked on did from the factory, most often the carter unit.

There is the possibility the relay isn’t working or some of the wires are faulty
(note: glow wires are NOT standard wire! Never replace one with regular copper wire).
Have you verified power at all 8 of the glow plugs when relay isn’t on?
 
The starter mentioned above is an excellent improvement. Powermaster 9052.
Installation of the front brace is CRITICAL on the stock and powermaster units. Many diy and even pro mechanics don’t reinstall them because the small block and big block chevy engines don’t have/need them, so assuming it’s ok they don’t go through the really annoying hassle of reinstalling them. This is often fatal to the engine cracking the block. The powermaster will crank the engine faster helping starting. The cable connection point is slightly different on the better starter as it is physically a smaller starter and post is therefore in a slightly moved location. Almost always cables can be repositioned without issue, but an RV - who knows.

Another thing that is helpful is large battery cable size and proper quality. Unfortunately for your RV we don’t know how long the cables are, what size they are now. So you would have to measure them and find the size on it. Both positive and negative cables are important as well as the battery to battery cable size.
For measuring distance I suggest kite string, taped onto one end the run it along the cable you have now. Pictures of the printed cable size is a good move.

Older or damaged battery/ battery cables can be a cause. Do you have a battery load tester? If not harbor freight sells a great one for like $20.
Test the batteries individually. Then to test the cables, before booking back to batteries, you hook to the cables under the truck. Many times you have to disconnect the cables from the starter to do this. Once clamped on the positive cable under rig, with negative clamp onto the starter housing-reattach only to one battery and do the load test. It should test EXACTLY the same as the battery did up top. If not you have a problem in one or both of the cables. Removing and cleaning the connections then retest.
Having large enough & high quality enough cables has two levels.
1. Enough to barely do the job.
2. Enough to do the job well.
The higher quality cable that is larger in size is more expensive so most manufacturers don’t do it. They want enough to sell the rig and get it through warranty is all. The age of the cables if you haven’t replaced them makes them highly suspect for not being up to snuff. I have seen some RV put excellent cables on, others have used junk I am amazed made it through warranty and some that didn’t.
 
Bezzer said:
You mentioned about fuel draining back .... I did put the clear rubber hose looking for bubbles and there were no bubbles after four day and stayed full. Can I assume that would indicate that I have no fuel drain back at this time?
Click to expand...

Watch the return line during the first crank of the day. It can be full of fuel, but, turn to air as the IP gets purged of air during cranking.
 
Will L. said:
The starter mentioned above is an excellent improvement. Powermaster 9052.
Installation of the front brace is CRITICAL on the stock and powermaster units. Many diy and even pro mechanics don’t reinstall them because the small block and big block chevy engines don’t have/need them, so assuming it’s ok they don’t go through the really annoying hassle of reinstalling them. This is often fatal to the engine cracking the block. The powermaster will crank the engine faster helping starting. The cable connection point is slightly different on the better starter as it is physically a smaller starter and post is therefore in a slightly moved location. Almost always cables can be repositioned without issue, but an RV - who knows.

Another thing that is helpful is large battery cable size and proper quality. Unfortunately for your RV we don’t know how long the cables are, what size they are now. So you would have to measure them and find the size on it. Both positive and negative cables are important as well as the battery to battery cable size.
For measuring distance I suggest kite string, taped onto one end the run it along the cable you have now. Pictures of the printed cable size is a good move.

Older or damaged battery/ battery cables can be a cause. Do you have a battery load tester? If not harbor freight sells a great one for like $20.
Test the batteries individually. Then to test the cables, before booking back to batteries, you hook to the cables under the truck. Many times you have to disconnect the cables from the starter to do this. Once clamped on the positive cable under rig, with negative clamp onto the starter housing-reattach only to one battery and do the load test. It should test EXACTLY the same as the battery did up top. If not you have a problem in one or both of the cables. Removing and cleaning the connections then retest.
Having large enough & high quality enough cables has two levels.
1. Enough to barely do the job.
2. Enough to do the job well.
The higher quality cable that is larger in size is more expensive so most manufacturers don’t do it. They want enough to sell the rig and get it through warranty is all. The age of the cables if you haven’t replaced them makes them highly suspect for not being up to snuff. I have seen some RV put excellent cables on, others have used junk I am amazed made it through warranty and some that didn’t.
Click to expand...
PowerMaster installation tips:
First loosely Install bracket to the block.
Then slide stater up and stud into backer. Tighten nut on stud to bracket. Install the starter bolts, torqued to 35 lbs. Tighten nut to bracket stud on starter. Tighten bracket bolt to block. Install starter cable and exciter wire. Start engine. Open a beer.
 
Bezzer said:
Hi Fellows: It's been a while but still having trouble starting my motorhome. I have a 1996 Safari 6.5L TD engine with 80,000 miles. (attached a picture of motorhome).

When I originally wrote about my problem ......Everyone said to buy 8- A/C Delco 60G glow plugs. I was always told that these would take a little extra time to start the engine.
The engine will start but requires more grinding on the starter. This only happens on the first start of day. And, of course, it draws more power from my one year old batteries.
When we are traveling it starts up every time when we get fuel or stop to eat etc..

I was just checking the internet and found this on Amazon....and other companies are selling these glow plugs also. See the web page and especially the Product Description and left side pictures.


Please let me know what you think about these glow plugs?
Click to expand...
Did you replace injectors?
 
I am now running a programmed ECM. QuadStar Tuning calls it the daily driver tune.
The GPs cycle does take several more seconds to turn off the WTS lamp than the original ECM did.
I also installed the Power Master starter and that too makes a notable amount of extra RPMs.
 
MrMarty51 said:
I am now running a programmed ECM. QuadStar Tuning calls it the daily driver tune.
The GPs cycle does take several more seconds to turn off the WTS lamp than the original ECM did.
I also installed the Power Master starter and that too makes a notable amount of extra RPMs.
Click to expand...
I would guess that that ECM is programmed to use the 60G's having a longer duration. I programmed mine to run them slightly longer
 
Hi Everybody! I am connecting my house batteries to a solenoid and to an off/on switch that would give my glow plugs more power when starting the engine.
Just a couple more things you should know. My EFI was replaced under warranty 27, 775 miles ago.
Also I replaced my glow plugs with 60G glow plugs and new Bosch injectors about 600 miles ago.
As far as air in the fuel lines...I added a clear line ...no bubbles...and still full after four days (as I said before).
I also have a original GM factory rotary fuel pump - in line...that starts when I turn the key on along with the glow plugs. ( I have checked that with a stand alone battery ) So I feel that fuel should not be a problem. (see picture of what mine looks like)
I have removed my two starting batteries and put a full charge on them. Ended up with 14.9 and settled in at 12.94 the next day. Six days later they now read today 12.68. My next step will be a load test again. After a load test --- I'll get back to you after the holidays.

Hope that answers some of your questions?
 

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The 309 fuel pump maxes out at 8psi and minimum rating is 6psi.
The ds4 calls for 8-14 psi when checking with Stanandyne. I am assuming a new ds4 is what you are referring to as a new efi.

Filling out your signature line is helpful. List the lift pump as the AC Delco EP309 and include purchase date in the signature line.
I suggest adding the fuel pressure gauge as described at the ip inlet. The group testing we did showed yours lasts about 9-12 months before falling out if it’s own specifications, but the ds4 wanting 8 psi as a minimum means you will probably be swapping it within 6 months. They do have a 2 year warranty. Having the dash mounted gauge you can easily show the store manager it is out of spec easily which is nice because he will tire of it the third time you show up for it…
Easy to change at least. So long as you are keeping a couple psi- it isn’t damaging the ip horribly bad. Just watch that gauge with the issue and see of there is correlation. Just remember correlation doesn’t equal causation.

Let us know about getting voltage at all plugs, and if cycling them 2-3 times solves it.
 
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