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99 k2500 6.5td not starting

M

MoldyCouchPizza

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Location
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Just recently acquired a 99 chevy k2500td with 140k miles on it which wont start (friend was driving fine down the interstate and engine cut off, no CEL, and loss of power steering). Considering the PMD/FSD mounted on the IP was the stock position (IP was replaced with a rebuild less than a year ago) I assumed that the rebuilds PMD was fried and ordered a new one, a spare to keep in the glovebox, and a remote mounting cable and heatsink. Alas, after hooking all this up and cranking it didn't work :-( Distraught, I checked to make sure the lift pump was lifting fuel out, and the injection pump was squirting fuel, both of which were happening. Glow plugs were just replaced less than a year ago, so I've been scratching my head on this one! OBDII scanner says voltage is at 13.2, which I read is a bit low...

I've been reading through the 6.5 grounds post by TD, and tomorrow will clean all the grounds... Fingers crossed she'll come on! Any suggestions will be much appreciated, and I will be reporting back along the way in case anyone else has a similar problem and comes across this in the future, thanks!
 
Pulled out the jumble of receipts and looked through, the glow plugs aren't specified as to what brand... It just says "glow plugs qty 8 43.32 each new" in March 2013. I have compiled the repairs as follows...

Shop 1: Sept 2012 @126k miles - Starter replaced with re-manufactured starter & glow plugs replaced.
Shop 2: Feb 2013 @ 132k miles - Suspension, brakes, diff fluid, nothing to do with truck starting and staying on... (truck was running fine before being brought here 1st time)
Shop 2: Mar 2013 @ 132k miles - Glow plugs, fuel filter, fuel line cleaned
Shop 2: Mar 2013 @ 132k miles - PMD kit w/resistor, heat sink, and long cable
Shop 3: Jan 2014 @ 140k miles - IP (injection pump) replaced with PMD in STOCK location on pump, wastegate solenoid replaced
Shop 3: Jan 2014 @ 140k miles - Starter (doesn't specify new or reman)

Because of the history, after replacing that PMD and getting fuel squirting out of the IP... And the fact that it cut off after it was running for a couple hours going down the highway @60mph makes me think the glow plugs aren't the only thing at fault but are part of a bigger issue... I am leaning towards a ground that may not be fully connected from all the research I have done online...

Please bestow upon me your wisdom, oh great truck gurus, this is my first diesel lol, and thanks!!!
 
Pulled out the jumble of receipts and looked through, the glow plugs aren't specified as to what brand... It just says "glow plugs qty 8 43.32 each new" in March 2013. I have compiled the repairs as follows...

Shop 1: Sept 2012 @126k miles - Starter replaced with re-manufactured starter & glow plugs replaced.
Shop 2: Feb 2013 @ 132k miles - Suspension, brakes, diff fluid, nothing to do with truck starting and staying on... (truck was running fine before being brought here 1st time)
Shop 2: Mar 2013 @ 132k miles - Glow plugs, fuel filter, fuel line cleaned
Shop 2: Mar 2013 @ 132k miles - PMD kit w/resistor, heat sink, and long cable
Shop 3: Jan 2014 @ 140k miles - IP (injection pump) replaced with PMD in STOCK location on pump, wastegate solenoid replaced
Shop 3: Jan 2014 @ 140k miles - Starter (doesn't specify new or reman)

Because of the history, after replacing that PMD and getting fuel squirting out of the IP... And the fact that it cut off after it was running for a couple hours going down the highway @60mph makes me think the glow plugs aren't the only thing at fault but are part of a bigger issue... I am leaning towards a ground that may not be fully connected from all the research I have done online...

Please bestow upon me your wisdom, oh great truck gurus, this is my first diesel lol, and thanks!!!
 
Welcome to The Truck Stop. You come across mighty funny already.

I just want to verify, you said the IP is squirting fuel... Are you getting fuel out the injector lines? A nice trick I learned from the gurus here is put a clear line on the return port out the IP. Then you can see any air bubbles in the system to know if you are sucking air. I am really wandering about that "fuel line cleaned" debris in the tank?

What rpm is the engine turning during cranking, this is crucial to a diesel.
 
Does it smell mighty funny like moldy pizza you find in your couch after a kids birthday party? Cause that seems to be the way this truck is lol.

I hope I'm doing this right... Here is the nipple hose I removed and put a bottle under and verified that fuel was coming out of...
return_maybe_hrmm.jpg

I unscrewed this top and tried to crank to verify lift pump action...
lift_pump_check.jpg

And in the passenger wheel well on the chassis ground behind the wheel, I found these lovely bolts and washer that seem about done... There were two braided cables grounded there which are dirty but their connectors were sanded and seem like they will make a good connection. Multimeter wouldn't pick up resistance between chassis and wire back there.
horrible.jpg

When you said IP return line, is that the one I was tinkering with? If not, I will dig around and probably add that mod which sounds really helpful. To thank you, here are some adorable kitten riding a roobah (sp?).

http://i.imgur.com/YnB2cXP.gif

Oops I forgot to answer your question... It sounds like it is cranking hard, I can't verify the RPMs as the batteries are disconnected as I work through these grounds, but when I cranked it before it sounds like it's turning pretty darn fast... I will verify RPMs when I reconnect everything and attempt another crank.
 
I wanted to see if that ground was what was causing it so after I cleaned and replaced that washer and bolt, I tried to crank her...

Will L, it seemed to get up to about 300rpms and kept turning but still not catching. Perhaps I should charge these batteries since I've tried to get the truck to run a few times...

Multimeter is reading 12.4 volts on each battery.

I noticed the first time I tried to turn in on, the Wait to Start light went off really quickly then started cycling like it has been... it goes on and off 4 or 5 times, from what I read at warm temps that usually means someone modded the glow plugs to turn on more often to help start?
 
When you first turn the key on the glow plugs should run for about 7 seconds continuously and then they will go on/off intermittently for a bit as this usually helps a running engine clean up faster. you shouldn't try to start it until it flashes off the first time. On your 99 the lift pump should run for a few seconds when you first turn the key on and you should be able to hear it easily with the drivers door open as it's right under the drivers seat. Just because you can hear it running does not mean it's pumping fuel. You nee to take the water drain line coming out of the fuel filter manager and check it for both volume and pressure. In your second picture it is the brass T that would be near your wrist. You also need to pull a glow plug and verify what kind you have, if someone put in the early (not self regulating kind) glow plugs they could be toast already, also some of the aftermarket ones don't have a very good track record
 
It appears to me that if you have fluid pouring out you will have running issues. In one pic you are pointing to the return line coming off the injectors. If fuel is coming out there it will not run. Fix the leak and start the truck!! Probably why it stalled on the highway in the first place. That line tee's off the front of the IP return hose. Could be where the leak is!!
 
Thanks for the replies! On that 2nd picture where I'm pointing to the return line off the injector, I pulled the line and thought the fuel would pour out the line but it actually poured out of the nipple where the line attaches to. So when I remove that and crank, nothing should be coming out of either end that had been unattached? After pulling this off the first time putting it back, I removed it to place a new clip and some fuel poured out of the nipple...

I will do some research on how to test the glow plugs and pressure in water main line from fuel filter manager and get those done asap. I'm new to all of this so I appreciate all the help!
 
I had opened the water drain t valve and turned the key without trying to crank up the engine and watched it shoot fuel into the air, so I'm thinking the lift pump is operational. Still not sure if the IP return line is good enough to check for IP functionality, so I will crack one of the metal injector lines tomorrow and try to crank it to see if it'll squirt too...
 
MoldyCouchPizza said:
I had opened the water drain t valve and turned the key without trying to crank up the engine and watched it shoot fuel into the air, so I'm thinking the lift pump is operational. Still not sure if the IP return line is good enough to check for IP functionality, so I will crack one of the metal injector lines tomorrow and try to crank it to see if it'll squirt too...
Click to expand...

You got the right idea here. Crack the nut on the metal line at the injector. The 1/8" return line in the first picture is not the one being referred to about the clear line. That would be the 1/4" line coming out of the front of the IP and is about 4" long.

Crank speed is ok.
 
Update: There is no fuel coming out of the metal injector lines. Tested the PMD wire harness and extension cable at the same time and verified that the ECU was sending signals out of the red wire (1.8V) while starting, the pink wire has 11V, and black C wire was a ground by testing against positive terminal (12.2V after attempted crank).

Also did a load test, battery drops to 10V but nothing less.

The IP was just replaced in January, and is rebuilt, but I have no clue who rebuilt it... I will try to find other ways to test this IP.
 
One other thing to check are the fuel shut off solenoid fuse, and the ecm fuse in the engine bay fuse block.
 
Also the fuel shutoff solenoid can fail. Pretty easy to bypass for a test.

Sent from my Studio 5.0s using Tapatalk
 
Thanks guys :-D I "temporarily" removed the plunger from the shutoff solenoid and tried to start her 6 times, resting inbetween... Also verified there were no burned out fuses... Still nada... After the PMD wire testing and this, is there any other way to test the IP or can I safely say it's shot and try to get a refund? It's covered under warranty at a shop since it was just replaced in January.
 
Where did the PMD and the extension cable come from? China made ext. cables are known to be bad. Try plugging the PMD into the original harness. If it is not on a heat sink don't run it long if it starts.
 
Cable and 2 PMDs (1 new 1 used) came from pensacola diesel. Verified the ecu signal voltages, ground, and power supplied through the wire harness and extension were within operational limits and tried both PMDs on the extension and original wire harness, still no fuel from metal injector lines
 
Pulled hose going into injector pump and turned key to on position, a healthy stream shot out so I'm fairly certain the fuel is getting to the IP. PMD wire signal voltages and PMDs themselves are good. Shutoff solenoid is un-plunged. It is safe to say at this point the IP crapped out and needs to be replaced?
 
Pmd's and harnesses from Pensacola are suspect. Try a known to be good PMD - that is true of any PMD issue - no matter what brand or source. Find the PMD diagnostics links. Be sure to check at the end of the extension cable also. Check my thread from around Christmas 2013 on the 1994 K3500

There is a jumper wire to run the lift pump in between the under hood fuse box and firewall. It can be hard to see. There are pictures here someplace. All you have to do is connect a hot 12 volt spade connector - preferably fused.

It sounds like a PMD/fuel; issue. Did you make a test on the PMD to see if it is sending the proper signal back to the Injection Pump?

Redo and add grounds. Find a thread on diagnostics and redoing/adding grounds. This is the first thing I would do. It may not be your problem, but it will be eventually if you do not address it.

I would recommend doing the battery bolt mod. I prefer to use an 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 Allen screw to a bolt.

I'm not sure I understand how you load tested your batteries. You mentioned voltage. Voltage really doesn't have anything to do with anything. The batteries need to be load tested with a load tester.You can load test at the battery and at the starter.

You need to check your glow plugs. Use only AC Delco 60G or Duraterms. If there is anything else in there, just pitch them and install new. I've never seen glow plugs kill an engine, but bad glow plugs will keep it from starting.
 
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