Riddle_3d
New Member
i had thought of the balancer myself. can the motor run if the crank is broke in it?
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93 6.5 issues
- Thread starter Riddle_3d
- Start date
NVW
Well-Known Member
Not for long, that 427 ran long enough to pull in a field. You would know if the crank was broke, make one hell of a rattling/knocking noise.
I wasn't suggesting yours was broke, Just throwing the HB as a cause of the flex plate breaking.
I wasn't suggesting yours was broke, Just throwing the HB as a cause of the flex plate breaking.
Riddle_3d
New Member
yeah, i didnt think it was broke, but i know if a balancer comes apart it can break a crank, happened on my 95. ill check it all out tomorrow, as im going to change the flexplate tomorrow
BigBlueChevy
Compression Ignition Addict
Thats interesting that the flexplate broke like that. Not to mention twice in the last 2 to 3 months. You would figure the crankshaft would have before or along with the flexplate simply because they are so sensitive to harmonics. Defiantly check out your HB, there is a good chance it needs replacing. Who have you been sourcing your flexplates from? When you pull this one, where is it broken? Same place as the last one? This may shed some light on whether its a defective batch or there is another underlying problem here. Perhaps you can post up some pictures of them?
As far as how the truck is running the first thing to do is get that IP bolted down properly. With it being even slightly loose like that it could be messing with your timing, or possibly even damaging the pump and or stretching the timing chain as well. Or it could be as simple as an old and worn out pump that is getting close to needing to be retired.
As far as how the truck is running the first thing to do is get that IP bolted down properly. With it being even slightly loose like that it could be messing with your timing, or possibly even damaging the pump and or stretching the timing chain as well. Or it could be as simple as an old and worn out pump that is getting close to needing to be retired.
Riddle_3d
New Member
the previous one was broken right around the bolt holes on the crank, i dont have it anymore, the shop that changed it does. ill find out where this one is broken and get some pictures of it tomorrow
turbonator
Member
Have you installed your boost gauge yet ? (welcome, by the way..... ). :thumbsup:
After the IP is tightened up, I'd take the suggestion of rigging a gauge to the drain on the fuel line to see the operating pressures of your lift pump. A used pump can fall off to no or very low pressure when the demand of IP is high (fall on it's face).:sick:
The pictures of the flex plate will be interesting to see, this is not a problem we have experienced ( don't ask about starter bolts though).:hihi:
After the IP is tightened up, I'd take the suggestion of rigging a gauge to the drain on the fuel line to see the operating pressures of your lift pump. A used pump can fall off to no or very low pressure when the demand of IP is high (fall on it's face).:sick:
The pictures of the flex plate will be interesting to see, this is not a problem we have experienced ( don't ask about starter bolts though).:hihi:
Riddle_3d
New Member
well i would have installed it when i got home, but this other happened. lol im going to put it on after i get the flexplate changed today
Riddle_3d
New Member
this flexplate was also broken around the center, but the 3, yes 3, transmission bolts had backed out of the back of the motor. once we got it down, we discovered there were broken off bolts in all the rest of them. we did not have time to get it any better today, and we need it this week, so we patched it up as best we could to get it going again. installed my boost gauge, and am making a whopping... wait for it... ZERO POUNDS OF BOOST!!
i didnt know they couldmake that much! lol, sorry for the sarcasm, but its damn frustrating!:mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2:
i didnt know they couldmake that much! lol, sorry for the sarcasm, but its damn frustrating!:mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2:
turbonator
Member
What kind of shaft movement does your turbo have? All the smoke that you talked about, was the reason originally we figured maybe the wastegate was wired open. Now you need to verify she turns and the shaft is not busted. You are going to be a master of these trucks in no time. As you are fixing every possible thing on them. After, its just pleasurable driving and routine maintenance.....
turbonator
Member
did you do a turbomaster yet? try that, if it is not the problem, at least it is built, can be used on another gm-8.....
Riddle_3d
New Member
correction. i got it to push 7 pounds of boost by running it balls to the wall up a hill. ill put the turbomaster on my new motor, yes the truck won the battle and im putting my 599 block on the stand together for the 93. the current motor (which i discovered isnt original) leaks oil like a siv, has quite a bit of blowby, on top of the current fuel system issues. i dont think mush more could go wrong on this truck. lol
I was going to suggest a blowby test.
However, I don't feel you have solved the issue on your 1993. My 1993 ran well, smoked like it was on fire, and had copper showing in the bearings and still pulled a 24" trailer like a good engine did.
The 1993 is gutless to begin with. Add some changes and it becomes really peppy. You get about another 10 MPH pulling a hill, 10% grade, with a trailer... DS4 engines are a different beast in both feel and protection from blowing an engine.
First the 1993 will respond well to 1/4 turn on the IP (or more if you feel lucky and don't mind changing a grenade that was once an engine.). You have to up the boost to take advantage of this and make sure the exhaust is 3 or 4" with a new down pipe. Crossover is also suspect to collapse. Air intake means loose the snorkel in the fender.
Heavy black smoke out the exhaust from altitude etc. delivering too much fuel and not enough air means get off the throttle or get towed and change the engine. Extended 14 PSI from the turbo will melt wires near the intake. Over 14 PSI and the turbo is simply a heater and exhaust restriction. You have a small turbo for quick spool, heavy duty work and the GM turbo is not well liked. You can gain MPG by not running the boost so high and making the turbo less restrictive as other members here have noticed lightly loaded. Myself towing heavy loads the MPG, 7.5 MPG, does not change just the top speed and available power. You need to decide what you want out of it, MPG or get out of it's own way depending on your use.
Getting the engine hot over the 210 mark from a bad fan clutch will scuff a piston and you get to change an engine... Ask me how I know. Cooling system up to par and upgrades go a long was with clean radiators being critical. You have to remove stuff to get radiators clean...
As far as your engine with a miss and breaking parts...
A miss on a diesel after warm up is serious. In fact the engine should not miss more than 1 min max on a cold day with bad glows revved up some. This indicates you have a mechanical reason for the miss. Burned valve, cracked and burned through piston, rocker arm out of place, bad injector, glow plug busted and scored the cylinder, etc. Vibration from a miss, or weak due to uneven compression loss, will break things. These high compression engines make many parts submit to vibration when running well as it is. Alternator brackets etc. Ether is bad news so don't go there unless you are going to pull the engine, toss the rods, starter, and glow plugs, and simply need to get it on the trailer.
Looks like you have decided to change the timing on your own. Line to line timing is a great starting point for a good engine with a new timing chain. Otherwise you need to time it by ear. Never leave the bolts loose on the IP as the gear train for it can be damaged. Some black smoke when the cold advance is on is about too far advanced when you get on the throttle.
Get to 45 MPH, light throttle. Should have diesel rattle. Add throttle and thus heat to the precups and the rattle should quiet down. This is when you have the timing right per Bill Heath. Otherwise you need special tools and timing specs that are hard to find. Like here: http://www.oliverdiesel.com/tech/timing.htm
However, I don't feel you have solved the issue on your 1993. My 1993 ran well, smoked like it was on fire, and had copper showing in the bearings and still pulled a 24" trailer like a good engine did.
The 1993 is gutless to begin with. Add some changes and it becomes really peppy. You get about another 10 MPH pulling a hill, 10% grade, with a trailer... DS4 engines are a different beast in both feel and protection from blowing an engine.
First the 1993 will respond well to 1/4 turn on the IP (or more if you feel lucky and don't mind changing a grenade that was once an engine.). You have to up the boost to take advantage of this and make sure the exhaust is 3 or 4" with a new down pipe. Crossover is also suspect to collapse. Air intake means loose the snorkel in the fender.
Heavy black smoke out the exhaust from altitude etc. delivering too much fuel and not enough air means get off the throttle or get towed and change the engine. Extended 14 PSI from the turbo will melt wires near the intake. Over 14 PSI and the turbo is simply a heater and exhaust restriction. You have a small turbo for quick spool, heavy duty work and the GM turbo is not well liked. You can gain MPG by not running the boost so high and making the turbo less restrictive as other members here have noticed lightly loaded. Myself towing heavy loads the MPG, 7.5 MPG, does not change just the top speed and available power. You need to decide what you want out of it, MPG or get out of it's own way depending on your use.
Getting the engine hot over the 210 mark from a bad fan clutch will scuff a piston and you get to change an engine... Ask me how I know. Cooling system up to par and upgrades go a long was with clean radiators being critical. You have to remove stuff to get radiators clean...
As far as your engine with a miss and breaking parts...
A miss on a diesel after warm up is serious. In fact the engine should not miss more than 1 min max on a cold day with bad glows revved up some. This indicates you have a mechanical reason for the miss. Burned valve, cracked and burned through piston, rocker arm out of place, bad injector, glow plug busted and scored the cylinder, etc. Vibration from a miss, or weak due to uneven compression loss, will break things. These high compression engines make many parts submit to vibration when running well as it is. Alternator brackets etc. Ether is bad news so don't go there unless you are going to pull the engine, toss the rods, starter, and glow plugs, and simply need to get it on the trailer.
Looks like you have decided to change the timing on your own. Line to line timing is a great starting point for a good engine with a new timing chain. Otherwise you need to time it by ear. Never leave the bolts loose on the IP as the gear train for it can be damaged. Some black smoke when the cold advance is on is about too far advanced when you get on the throttle.
Get to 45 MPH, light throttle. Should have diesel rattle. Add throttle and thus heat to the precups and the rattle should quiet down. This is when you have the timing right per Bill Heath. Otherwise you need special tools and timing specs that are hard to find. Like here: http://www.oliverdiesel.com/tech/timing.htm
Riddle_3d
New Member
alright, i will try to answer what i can about this.
And the kicker to it all? i lucked into 2 599 block 6.5's today, one with IP. he says the cranks are broke, but the conditions are suspect. i think i can at least get one good block out of the two, and ill have no more low compression, turbo, flexplate(hopefully), boost, power, sound, wiring, or any other issues! ill have a fresh 0 mile 6.5 in it!
i would do this, but im not sure what the PO did. i got a pump off a dofferent motor today im going to have rebuilt.
its 3", but i want to go to 4. the snorkel is removed. the crossover is also good (inspected it when i changed the flexplate)
it gets 16, and i can only squeeze 7 pounds boost out of it at WOT under load
the miss was from the cracked flywheel. changed it and it went away. i suspect the shop didnt put it back together correctly last time.
i just observed the timing, tried to change it, and it wouldnt run. i also found out this is not a 599 block, so there is no real timing mark to line it up to.
And the kicker to it all? i lucked into 2 599 block 6.5's today, one with IP. he says the cranks are broke, but the conditions are suspect. i think i can at least get one good block out of the two, and ill have no more low compression, turbo, flexplate(hopefully), boost, power, sound, wiring, or any other issues! ill have a fresh 0 mile 6.5 in it!
ak diesel driver
6.5 driver
crossover is a double layer it can look good on the outside and not be good on the inside