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6.5 with no fuel to injectors

S

small_block_fiero

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Grand Rapids MI
Im pulling my hair out, i bought a 94 k3500 that had a locked up engine. I put a 6.2 block in with 6.5 heads and front end on it. Im trying to get the injectors bleed out so i can start driving it. i have to check engine light on the dash but if i put a test light on the pin in the ecm for the ses light i have power but cant get any codes out of it. ive tryed unhooking the optical sensor and then the crankshaft posison sensor. I know my pmd is good and got a nice suprise when i checked the prom( its from ss diesel). I have .03vac ish to my fuel solinoid, the fuel shut down solinoid is moving like it should. Im really confused guys let me know if ya guy can think of anything i forgot to check
 
The SES light doesnt get power from the PCM. The PCM grounds it. So there will always be power to the PCM when the ignition is on, through the gauges fuse. When the PCM completes the circuit to ground it comes on.

If you are not getting any SES or glow light then your PCM is probably not getting power or is not grounded. Check the ECM fuse under the dash. Then check to make sure you put all the grounds back on at the back of the passenger side head. There should be a few gounds there, at least two, but one will have two wires on it. They grounded to the engine on the coolant blockoff plate at the very back of the head, and one of the intake mounting studs.

If you checked the output of the fuel solenoid driver (FSD) aka PMD, on pin B while cranking and only had .03VAC then thats just noise and you are not getting any inject signals to the IP. If the PCM is powered up, and still get the same result then the PMD would be suspect. But it sounds like your PCM is just not on.
 
The fuse is good, i have one ground on the back of the head(it comes out of the main wire harness) i cant see anymore grounds that should be hooked up

I have power at E1 and A1

Do you know what pins the ecm grounds are and if there should be more 12v supply pins
Thanks Buddy
 
Grounds, grounds, grounds gotta check them grounds on these trucks! Grounds to frame, grounds to body, grounds to block!!!!!! And onward the 300 rode into the valley, onward they rode!!!! Lots more grounds to clean and check!!!! Where did that woodchuck go????? Can u help me with the woodchuck chuckin wood thing Fiero, I seem to be confused about it.....
 
should be at least 2 grnds back at the head,1 ECM,1 LP,if you got AT,then there are 3.
then there's a groundstrap head to fire wall-fire- wall to frame below the down pipe.
Is the IP ground wire still intact?

FSO sol should have full 12 volt(key on)

Is the LP pumping fuel?,..without it you will grow old and never start that engine.
Is there fuel at the IP inlet?

Got the gear timing correct?
Was the CPS tight in its bracket?... if not,it could be installed 90% out..causing a never start.
 
small_block_fiero said:
The fuse is good, i have one ground on the back of the head(it comes out of the main wire harness) i cant see anymore grounds that should be hooked up

I have power at E1 and A1

Do you know what pins the ecm grounds are and if there should be more 12v supply pins
Thanks Buddy
Click to expand...

On smaller 24-pin pin harness, A1 is 12V with ignition. rows A or C are the first rows next to the harness clips. On the blue harness D1 is constant 12V power. rows B or D are the second row opposite the harness clip.

The grounds go to PC1 and PD1, which are the first pins on each row of the larger 32-pin pink harness. That engine ground also goes to the OBD DLC under the dash, pin A.

Are you not getting either SES or glow light with the ignition? Youre missing at least one ground if there is only one on back of passenger head, unless someone modified it.
 
Allright, i found one ground that i somehow pushed down by the exhaust manifold that has two wires on it. the lp is working. im getting a little fuel now, but when i bleed out my injectors it isnt even trying to fire. i set my cam timing with the crank dot at 12 o clock and the cam at 6 then rotated it all and put my ip on. my batterys are droping to 9.5-10v when i try to start it so im going to try it again in a little bit. does my cam timing sound right i couldnt find much info on it. as far as my crank sensor and ip i never losened them up when i took it apart.
thanks for all the help guys
 
Dont grind on the starter for very long u can burn it up easy. Givd it a rest plus u can cause the starter to break off due to the high compression when u crank it. Make sure ur brac ed is on the back of the starter, a lot of po never put it back on when they replace the starter and u can bend the bolts or break the bl ok ck flange.
 
Ok, Ill make sure i get that back on. I swear this truck is murphys law, on the old engine a rod cap came off destroying the crank and taking a chunk out of the back two cyls, a lifter failed and wiped out the cam, and the valve guides were shot, now this lol
 
If there is another ground it might be actually behind the head, against the firewall closer to the Fuel Filter or attached like where the tranny dipstick brace is.

If you have a lot of air in the system it would take a while. The visor probably has starting instructions that include the starter cool down period after cranking about 15seconds.

You can verify that you now are getting at least 1.2VAC while cranking on the wire between the PMD pin B and the IP fuel solenoid. Have to be all plugged in and probe into the wire or backprobe the PMD connector for that.
 
Make sure your batteries are fully charged. Diesels need good cranking RPM. If your batteries are weak the starter won't crank fast enough. Running the glows and then the starter takes a lot out of the batteries.

Don
 
I just tryed it with fully charged batterys, no luck still. When i bleed the injectors i get just a little bit of fuel nothing compared to when i did it on my 97 2500. i hooked my ethos up to it and it says fuel rate when cranking is 2.9mm3 injection timing is 16.1 desired inj timing is 14.2 and my coolant temp is way off it reads on the scaner at 172 deg F the gauge on the dash says below 100 and my garge is about 70. does my injection timing seem really advanced? when i crank it over it still doesnt even try to pop or fire at all
 
The injection advance is alright, but it might be that your IP is installed too advanced that it cant go below 16 degrees, since its asking for 14, or that could just be an artifact of variable cranking RPMs, changing internal pressures. The timing wedge on the timing cover should point just barely to the passenger side of the corner of the IP's mounting flange. If the IP is turned much further towards the drivers side it is too advanced.

Perhaps you should try unplugging the Optical Sensor (OS) on top of the IP. Crank about 15 seconds. If nothing, then plug that back in and unplug the Crank Position Sensor (CPS) that has the tail come out by the IP/Tstat. Crank that for about 15 seconds and see how it compares.

Checking for AC voltage off of PMD pin B while cranking would be most definitive as to where you had an IP issue or some other PCM related issue. If you have 1-1.4VAC PCM and PMD are fine, IP fuel solenoid is just bad or Fuel Shutoff Solenoid not working. If you have nothing to noise then PCM isnt sending the command or the PMD is completely dead (not likely), if you have like .2-.8VAC then the PMD is probably weak. If you get over 1.4VAC then your IP connections probably arent connected good.
 
Your IP might be shot. I would crank on it a few more times without the CPS plugged in though. Did you get any codes while doing those tests? Like DTC 17,18,19?

You cannot physically rotate it enough to get 180 out, but you could line up the timing gear wrong. There are holes in the timing gear that you might be able to put the IP shaft thing into that would be wrong. There is one oval hole it is supposed to go in. I have never tried to see if it would fit in the cirlce hole on the other end.

Just to be sure, you can gut the fuel shutoff solenoid by removing a snap ring and that plunger falls out. Also, you can try undoing fuel return line and put it into a bottle or something because a clogged line would cause issues.

I have all this info at the end of the recommendations list as well, and another quick reference about the PMD signals as well. And for some unknown reason, if you do get the IP to start spitting fuel, and its smoking while cranking but wont run playing with the pedal can help. Technically the pedal is dasbled below about 400rpm, but it seems to help when its sputtering.
 

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  • Mnx&Mods info_2.5-small.pdf
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  • PCM-FSD-IP signals.pdf
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I finnaly got it to start popping evey once in a while, i have no codes except when i unplug sensors. the fuel kinda smells weird, i recently put some stabilizer in the tank but i bought the truck back in feb with a half a tank.

Thank you for the articles im going to keep them handy, and pop the os out soon
thanks Buddy
 
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