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6.5 or 8.2

figment

figment

A junkie for the purr of a 6.5L
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I'm now at cross roads. After my good fortune on my holidays, friend of mine who happens to be a diesel mechanic suggested I should just scrap the 6.5 build and get a 8.2L Diesel. He was telling me they come from the factory with 320hp. Best part it's all mechanical. I googled it and came up with some info but not much.

Does anyone here ever have any knowledge about them? I have never heard of them before 2 days ago?
 
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8.2 as in the "fuel pincher" 8.2?

It's not worth it IMO. The injectors in that engine are a really strange design, and the tool to properly time them has been out of production for years. You can't get the tool anymore, so unless your guy has one, you'll never be able to set the injection timing.

Other than that i suppose the engine's ok. Never run one. It was Detroit first 4 stroke diesel, and the 6.2 was the "little brother" of the 8.2 more or less.
 
figment said:
I'm now at cross roads. After my good fortune on my holidays, friend of mine who happens to be a diesel mechanic suggested I should just scrap the 6.5 build and get a 8.2L Diesel. He was telling me they come from the factory with 320hp. Best part it's all mechanical. I googled it and came up with some info but not much.

Does anyone here ever have any knowledge about them? I have never heard of them before 2 days ago?
Click to expand...

Nothing against your friend, but in my opinion, he is steering you in the wrong direction. The 8.2L was designed specifically to get better fuel economy in a medium duty chassis and was made from approximately 1980-1987.

The 8.2-liter "Fuel Pincher" was the first four-cycle engine that Detroit Diesel introduced on the market. The initial engine released had some issues on the operational side. Its head torque was not properly achieved because of its small head bolts, and the engine block was made using an open block deck that created problems with its head gaskets during overheating. These issues were resolved in subsequent years, and a turbocharged diesel engine variant was also released.

The base 8.2L Fuel Pincher is a naturally aspirated engine with a displacement of 500 cubic inches. Its rated gross output is 165 horsepower at 3,000 RPM, and it has a dry weight of 1,096 pounds. It has a bore and stroke of 4.25 by 4.41 inches. On the other hand, the Turbocharged Fuel Pincher has a gross output of 230 horsepower at 3,000 RPM, and has a dry weight of 1,121 pounds. Both engines are capable of producing up to 495 foot-pounds of torque, depending on their usage.


All in all they were not a very good engine and in my opinion definately not a good choice to replace a 6.5. They go through head gaskets fairly quickly, due to free standing cyliner bores, small TTY head bolts, and cylinder pressures.... the turbo models were even worse. They are low power engines compared to their displacement, pyhsical size, and weight.
 
Since i never heard of it before, I had a sneaking suspicion that it was something that everyone wanted to forget, but then I've heard the same comments about the 6.2's and 6.5's too.....
 
figment said:
Since i never heard of it before, I had a sneaking suspicion that it was something that everyone wanted to forget, but then I've heard the same comments about the 6.2's and 6.5's too.....
Click to expand...

I had never heard of them either until your query so i just did some searching found some dated info on them including these posts from some folks in 06 that claimed to own them at one time. see comments :

The 8.2 is notorious for blowing head gaskets, especially the turbo charged version. Anything that increases cylinder pressure will increase the probability of blowing a head gasket. It is an inherent design problem. There are four bolts around each cylinder and they do not provide the clamping pressure necessary. DD did an interim fix of upgrading the size and strength of the head bolts but it was not sufficient to correct the basic problem. I speak from experience, I had many, many of these in a city delivery fleet. A four gas emissions analyzer probe in the radiator above the fluid level gave an instant confirmation of combustion gasses in the coolant, a sure sign of a blown head gasket.
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Old 03-07-2006, 09:17 PM #8 (permalink)
Gone Fishen
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Re: 8.2 Detroit Diesel
Fleet man is close to most of the problem. Others are closer. First of all the cylinders area 'free floating 'design. This meaning that the upper part of the cylinder walls were touching each other but NOT the upper part of the block. This is why the head gaskets give out. Vibration. The 'fix' was heavier gaskets and a larger diameter head bolt. POS. They came in 3 basic HP. 170 natural style, 205 hp turbo engine, 230 hp turbo engine also.
Next item is to discuss an alternative engine. Just don't ask. Get a repower. The parts are really scarce as they quit making the engine 10 years ago and the reman engines have been exhausted. There are 2 builders but they are charging a premium for engines and parts.
If you love the truck, get a real engine. Why should I know, I still have to work on them. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bleh.gif
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Old 03-08-2006, 09:05 AM #9 (permalink)
Pat Dolan
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Re: 8.2 Detroit Diesel
Put me down for the 466 repower vote.

I had some 8.2s when they were a lot closer to new, and they were a compact, economical engine, but it seems they were out of the trucks almost as much as in. Also had a 466 in exactly the same service. Bought it from a junkyard as a miled-out milk truck, ran it for a couple of years (1,000+ mile road trip weekly, grossed out), never did wear it out or break it. Actually, I still have it. Most reliable engine you can imagine, and super-cheap to rebuild.



Hey if you wanna give it a go have at it, as you said 6.2/6.5 has never gotten much Love either.
 
From this ebay page http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=detroit%20diesel%208.2&_trkparms=65%253A12%257C66%253A2%257C39%253A1%257C72%253A5189&rt=nc&_dmpt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&_ipg=&_sop=12&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14.l1513&_pgn=1 looks to be in ball park for the 6.2/6.5 for cost of repair items, but from what I'm gathering on the web it is an 80s vintage engine and not much more in stock form than the 6.5 looks to top out around 3000 rpm for max power but maybe that is a good # with the correct trans
 
Thoughts from another former 8.2 owner on a IH site

Here is another perspective on the 8.2T 170hp. I had one in a 1984 GMC6000 rackbody with a liftgate. It had a very nice Clark 455-5 + 2 trans. The truck was originally built to haul gas bottles for a welding company. I purchased it from a guy who delivered vending machines. I used it from 1998-2004 and never had to do one thing to the motor, which was a factory reman installed less than four months after it was built. Apparently, they had a serious overheating problem right out of the gate and that is why they had a bad rap against them. I ran a legitimate 14mpg empty, 13mpg loaded with palletized stone, concrete rubble, mulch, stone dust etc., everything that one could imagine using it for a landscaping business. The truck weighed 13800lbs empty with the massive steel body and raillift on the tail. Even loaded, the throttle response was snappier than either of my DT Navistar setups. The only place the motor leaked oil was for the hydroboost/vacuum boost pump on the back of the alternator, that is, the return hose to the oil sump. A five cent piece of fuel hose would have fixed it but I was lazy. As long as I kept it plugged in when temps dropped below 50 degrees, it did not smoke AT ALL on startup and purred like a kitten all day. Under 40, not plugged in, forget it, it wouldn't start period. For all of the grief and laughing I received from people about this engine, plus whatever you read, the motor never let me down ever. A lot of the guys who laughed also moaned constantly about their fords, chevy gassers, cat motors, yes Nav. DT's, and on and on.

Granted, I don't own the truck anymore, and probably got the one good 8.2T ever built, but I have never had a more dependable and yes, economical motor in a medium duty truck. Also, I would never consciously buy another one, as the law of averages always seems to find me, but I would not absolutely disavow this motor like most would. I would recommend you get one with low miles, low hours, low price. The parts for this motor are really quite expensive if you need them. I would wait for one that was nearly free. As with many v8 diesels, the bell is exclusive to the 8.2 block and there may be bolt pattern differences for the many trannies they used so be extremely careful. You can buy entire trucks with this motor for coffee money in Big Truck Trader etc.

Another former owners comments from here http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/814875-detroit-8-2l-diesel.htm : I have had a 8.2-powered f600 for years. I use it for an on-site water truck with a 2,000 gallon tank. It always starts, usually needs ether, and smokes a lot. It burns some oil, and I would think it is too underpowered to use on the highway.

If you have limited expectations, it could serve you well around a farm. If you want to go on the highway, get something else.

Jock
 
I had one too..... it was in a 1983 GMC 6000 dump truck which grossed around 24,000-26,000 lbs most of the time. It ran ok, never had any major problems out of it, but it didn't really run good enough that you wanted to go into the local diner and brag about it at lunch time. It didn't overheat, even with running it at full throttle 75% of the time. It DID get really good fuel mileage, like one of TD's pasted comments stated. It was underpowered for the size of the truck that it came in from the factory. That is not necessarily the engines fault, more like the people that decided to put a 170 HP diesel into a medium duty truck, but it does contribute to the engine getting a bad rap.

I advised against it as a replacement for a 6.5 because of several reasons. An 8.2, even a great running one, has no benifit over a 6.5. You aren't really gaining anything, other than maybe the "wow" factor people may have when you open the hood.

1) The 8.2 weighs 300-400 lbs more and is physically bigger (taller and wider) than a 6.5. Those two things will raise challanges in fitting an 8.2 into a GM pickup and finding suspension that will live a long and happy life holding it.

2) The turbo version of the 8.2 will cause even more fitment problems. The turbo sits in the middle of the valley at the very rear of the engine. The exhaust housing on the turbo sits on top of the bellhousing and exhaust outlet points directly toward the rear of the engine, so in other words it would be butted up against the firewall with no room for a down pipe.

3) Even with the turbo version, you only have 230 HP and 495 FT LBS.


So suppose you found a great running 8.2 for a real good price. You spent a lot of long hours, sweat, and money out in the shop modifying the engine mounts, firewall, cooling system, coil springs, oil pan, throttle linkages, exhaust system, etc, etc and got the 8.2 mounted into your Chevy truck. It fires up without any issues and purrs like a kitten, you take it around the block and all goes well...... now, for the big question..... What have you gained from spending the time/money/sweat doing this swap?

The 8.2 has known and documented factory design issues that WILL cause HG's to blow, not a matter of "if", but "when". There isn't a fix to that problem, studs won't fix it, different gaskets won't fix it.... the problem is in the design of the free standing cylinders. It weighs anywhere between 1,000 and 1,200 lbs, enough said there. The "high output" version only has 230 hp / 495 ft lbs and there aren't any bigger injectors readily available or magic screws to turn to get more power out of it.

A bone stock 6.5 had what, 215 hp / 440 ft lbs in the late 90's?
 
We had an 8.2 NA in an old C60 utilty truck. It was a gutless pig to drive but the mexicans beat the ever living shit out of it and the only issues that truck ever had was the damn brakes and the spline on the throttle lever on the governer box stripped out. to my knowledge the truck is still out there plowing snow every winter. If I were gonna shoehorn something big in for a toy, I'd rather look at a 3208T. Another throwaway but you can crank em up pretty damn good.
 
Acesneights1 said:
We had an 8.2 NA in an old C60 utilty truck. It was a gutless pig to drive but the mexicans beat the ever living shit out of it and the only issues that truck ever had was the damn brakes and the spline on the throttle lever on the governer box stripped out. to my knowledge the truck is still out there plowing snow every winter. If I were gonna shoehorn something big in for a toy, I'd rather look at a 3208T. Another throwaway but you can crank em up pretty damn good.
Click to expand...

HeHeHe, that would be quite the shoehorn Kenny! Just finished up that one on a boat that was 'shoehorned' in. I'm still sore from lying on my side/crawling through tight holes reaching around corners trying to do anything.

Cheers
Nobby
 
Been around a few and let me say this, if you think that the 6.5 has headaches, OOOOOOH yeah buddy the 8.2 was a real nightmare.

Stay as far from that creature as you can get. It is a parts orphan for one and the problems can drive you to the poor house quickly.

Build a good little 6.5, even if you buy a block and set of heads that came by boat your better off.

Missy
 
I passed up a Brigadier with an 8.2 before I bought my C65 with the 427. With the lop-sided fuel prices I'm happy with that decision. It's just a big toy, really.

I can out-run most single axle dumper-trucks but the MPG takes a hit....

It would be a 'wow' factor in a pickem-up for sure, but most won't know WTF they're looking at anyway.

I saw Kent Moore tools for the the 8.2 somewhere, Still available new. Used for sure.
 
Never worked on one save for what I mentioned but I would imagine it's still mech common rail like the 2 strokers minus the blower and probably has intake valves vs crankcase scavenged. I know it had a gov box for the racks because I had to fix it. Thing was a dog for power.
 
There was a old 80s county truck I wanted to buy with a 8.2. I talked to a few old skool diesel guys and they said as long as the engine had the larger head bolts then its a great engine.

That would be a big engine to stuff in there, I think I seen some youtube vids of 8.2s in chevy pickups.
 
nope his name is jeff from atlantic detroit / allison in middletown. he is the best detroit guy around. and one of the best mechanics i know, taught me quite a bit.
 
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