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2018 Ford F150 Diesel

BIGR

BIGR

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As you all know Ford announced a 3.0 Liter Power Stroke, V-6 ($ 2400 dollar option over the ECO Gas Motor) for the F150. Just read where Ford is claiming 30 MPG highway and 22 MPG City, I would assume that would in a 2 wheel drive version. 250 HP and 440 LB-Ft are the power ratings, so they say.

Just curious to see what the new Chevy In Line 6 Diesel will get on the open road, mileage wise?
 
BigDogYJ said:
Those would be impressive numbers for a full size. That’s little 2.8 Dmax territory. It will be interesting to see what gm can pull off with the 1500 platform.


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Yea, I hope GM can better the Ford MPG numbers. Not sure if it is possible with all of the environmental restrictions we have on Diesel engines, but I would really perk up if someone could make a mid sized Diesel or gas truck like a Colorado or a 1500 that could get 35 to 40 MPG on the highway. Don't think we will ever see it, I wish that they will prove me wrong...HA, HA...:D
 
BIGR said:
As you all know Ford announced a 3.0 Liter Power Stroke, . . . claiming 30 MPG highway and 22 MPG City . . .
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That is probably what they will publish for the EPA numbers based on controlled tests / scenarios. Real world driving tends to not support EPA figures any more and owners may expect lower. Although, the figures are interesting.

In that power / towing class, am just not clear on why diesel is desirable any more. Seems to me that for the price, the gas motors have the advantage. Especially seeing as current generation diesels are *way* more complex than their predecessors and arguably equal in complexity (if not more complex) than a gasser.

So, without any real advantage over a gasser in the light duty arena and coupled with higher emissions for (roughly) the same capability, it has me wondering why diesel is attractive.

While I love the Burb, come replacement time, the next platform is looking like gas as I prefer less complexity. And I have borrowed / rented a couple of fairly new gassers to know that they are capable for my towing needs (including up / down grade).


BIGR said:
Yea, I hope GM can better the Ford MPG numbers. Not sure if it is possible with all of the environmental restrictions we have on Diesel engines . . .
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Agree. Unless manufacturers are able to get through this learning curve and lower the emissions 'taxation' on the motor (like was done on gas), light duty diesels might go the way of the manual transmission . . .
 
Ford and GM are jumping on them because they seen how well Dodge and Nissan has done. There's an obsession with diesel's today where many buy 3/4 tons and never haul anything more than 2 people, butvthey wanted a diesel. These half tons are filling that void. I agree though, gas has come a long ways, and the mpg difference has been greatly reduced between emissions hampering diesels's, and technology improving gassers. The future technology I see coming will be in multi fueled engines. There's already a few of them out there with spark ignition diesels that can also run on gas. With technology getting to the point that they can make a low compression spark ignition engine run on diesel, I foresee them taking over.
 
THEFERMANATOR said:
Ford and GM are jumping on them because they seen how well Dodge and Nissan has done. There's an obsession with diesel's today where many buy 3/4 tons and never haul anything more than 2 people, butvthey wanted a diesel. These half tons are filling that void. I agree though, gas has come a long ways, and the mpg difference has been greatly reduced between emissions hampering diesels's, and technology improving gassers. The future technology I see coming will be in multi fueled engines. There's already a few of them out there with spark ignition diesels that can also run on gas. With technology getting to the point that they can make a low compression spark ignition engine run on diesel, I foresee them taking over.
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I knew you would chime in on the subject Ferm. You are right some people just drive a Diesel because its cool. Most of us need them because we need something that will work hard and get the job done.

However this day and age it would probably be hard for me to go out and pay a big price for a new Diesel. A camper and a farm tractor are my main heavy loads these days, but I don't tow heavy every day. In the future I will be towing the tractor more to the farm, but heck its not every day. Guys that are in the work force such as contractors, construction and big farming, use theirs daily and can really justify paying for a Diesel truck. I know some of the gas engines are getting back up there as far as HP and Torque but someone needs to bring back a stout big block like the 8.1 Liter that has some serious grunt. At that point, for my local towing chores I might just look at one of those trucks.

Multi fuel engine options would be very interesting, though I bet it would be a high dollar cost option.
 
If a person (company) is just driving around and not using the second half of the throttle- gas is the smarter choice. It’s when they work the rig hard enough that their foot is frequently closer to the floor for the needed power that a diesel pays for itself.

Their were plenty of the old 350tbi engines (and carbed predecessors) that hit the 300,000 mile mark. LS engines are a given to hit 300,000 to the point it’s wierd and usually neglected bad if it doesn’t. So longevity really isn’t a comparison factor anymore.

It isn’t just the initial cost of a few grand companies take into account. It’s a few thousand times 25, 50 or more rigs- then dollar cost average that amount that they need to justify. Then if they do their own maintenance, adding diesels into an all gasoline fleet drives up the cost. More expensive oil and more expensive fuel filters are only a part.

Then there is always what happened to my Mercedes soon after being sold- average people are dumb and will go to the gas station for a normal fill up. Gas in yonder Diesel tank = loss of $$. Down time and productive time of an employee sitting for a few hours for the tow truck.

We all know, if you are going to work it hard, a diesel will pay for itself in no time. If you are willing to learn the details of any specific diesel it can save lots of $.

But like at the municipality that I work for, they look for any excuse possible to out all the 6.5 school busses and work trucks they can because the mechanics dont learn the quirks- even though I been telling the guys turning the wrenches and the lower management people since the early 2000’s- they only buy factory parts, and have replaced at least 1 Injection pump on every engine- needing only pmds. The mechanics don’t know them so they look bad diagnostic wise to their boss and just push it off as a p.o.s. And to get them outnif the the fleet and prove they “know what they are talking about” they theow excess parts when not needed to drive up cost. Same thing done to the ford platform because of their oil pressurized injectors and lack of good enough fuel & oil filters. Great engines with a bad wrap for lack of good filtering.

These “lessons” are in tons of write ups that fleet managers and owners of smaller businesses read and take to heart. Very rarely does a company a stick with diesel as their go to anymore.

Even the fuel commpany I used to work at has an almost all gasoline fleet again, like they did before I worked there. If the carbon tax gets carries nation wide like it has been written and rewritten each time- diesels in lighter vehicles will go away.

Heptane (c7) is the most common carbon count of gasoline with octane (c8) added to stop knocking.
While kerosene is C12 to C15, with Diesel going to at least c20- usually 21, sometimes even higher. I have “seen” plenty of c25 make it in. The more of the higher number they can get away with in the diesel the more profitable that distillation run is. So what is the “c” count? Carbon molecules count in the fuel. So right off the bat, 1 gallon of diesel puts out 3 times as much carbon as gasoline. And with the use of ethonal/ methonal- the ratio doesn’t improve for us diesel guys.

You guys know I am not exactly a tree hugging dude, unless hugging with my brush gaurd then floor board of my Hummer. But really- if a pickup gets 15 mpg and a gasoline car gets 30 going down the hiway. it is literally polluting 6 times as much. Just simple chemistry and physics.
When burned with the oxygen it makes that much more co2, and any tiny bits of sulfur we love so much all turns into acid rain. Those old enough to remember the panic and damage that was obvious in the 70’s and early 80’s remembers that. Why did it go away in America and Canada? Low sulfur diesel and finally ULSD.

Man made global warming/ climate change? Not imo. But simple polution and it’s host of medical and crop problems? Yup. No denying that.

Only thing I don’t get is why the tree huggin prius drivers aren’t burning natural gas in their planet savers. The small investment pays for itself in gas conversion and the carbon count difference to gasoline is huge! Half the carbon count and related issues. Heck straight propane is c3 At least run propane.

Is saving the world really why the big 3 aren’t making many diesels? No, but the EPA regulates how much they can make, even if the buyers want it. Clean diesel is their issue. And like clean coal- that is an enormous uphill battle to get something 3 times as dirty to burn even half as clean.

Long term- natural gas or electric is what will be on the road when we are all in the dirt.
 
I cannot put my hand on it right now, however Mechanical Engineering (ASME) did a fairly recent article on on " How green electric car are NOT'! When you take account the "whole enchilada" as we say the game changes..
 
Will L. said:
Only thing I don’t get is why the tree huggin prius drivers aren’t burning natural gas in their planet savers. The small investment pays for itself in gas conversion and the carbon count difference to gasoline is huge! Half the carbon count and related issues. Heck straight propane is c3 At least run propane.
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Yea, those tree huggers need to practice what the preach. Often I am motoring along on the highway traveling within 5 to 10 MPH of the speed limit, minding my own business when here comes a Prius or a Subaru hauling a#$ by me like a bat out of H#LL. Usually they have the usual bumper stickers like coexist, love is joy, no fracking, save the earth or something to that effect. I suppose they think going at a higher speed is not using anymore gas or is not polluting the atmosphere.
 
LMAO. I see the same Prius cars with same stickers up here driving the same way.
Too funny.
I still prefer diesel to gas!
 
Yea those cars are all over the place here, it is like some kind of cult or group of people. There are certain ones that run specialized license plates and most the time those cars have those weird bumper stickers also.

I am really anxious to see how the GM Inline 6 Diesel does when it comes out.
 
The in line design always is more torque and lower top rpm than a v design, and farther on the scale is rotary. There was something taught about that back in first year auto shop class. That was so many years ago, I can't remember why it is that way.
 
Will L. said:
The in line design always is more torque and lower top rpm than a v design, and farther on the scale is rotary. There was something taught about that back in first year auto shop class. That was so many years ago, I can't remember why it is that way.
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One time there was a saying that went like this: Six in a row will go.
 
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