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2005 Chevy 3500 Rear Axle GAWR Upgrade
- Thread starter Oakwood
- Start date
BIGR
Lucky To Be Here
Welcome to The Truck Stop, Oakwood.
I am sure some of these guys will chime in at some point with some advice and information for you.
I am sure some of these guys will chime in at some point with some advice and information for you.
I assume you want to increase the weight over what the truck was rated for. Bluntly: Get another truck with the proper weight rating on the door sticker.
You overload the truck and 1) Your insurance company walks away refusing coverage. 2) It's intentional gross negligence. Thus in a wreck, no matter the fault, you are in deep expensive trouble. But, But... I put bigger springs, better tires, etc. on... No one on the jury will care.
Ask your insurance agent and your attorney who has to defend you about your plans first. Do you have a home or something else to loose? That will be your final answer rather than free advice off the internet. When I asked my attorney in context of a too heavy truck camper: he pointed out the "Arizona Stupid Law" that lets insurance companies not pay for stupid things like intentionaly overloading a tow vehicle and cited a case of a overloaded pickup hauling a GN trailer, No deaths but the owner had a note to pay on a totaled truck and trailer with NO INSURANCE PAYOUT.
You overload the truck and 1) Your insurance company walks away refusing coverage. 2) It's intentional gross negligence. Thus in a wreck, no matter the fault, you are in deep expensive trouble. But, But... I put bigger springs, better tires, etc. on... No one on the jury will care.
Ask your insurance agent and your attorney who has to defend you about your plans first. Do you have a home or something else to loose? That will be your final answer rather than free advice off the internet. When I asked my attorney in context of a too heavy truck camper: he pointed out the "Arizona Stupid Law" that lets insurance companies not pay for stupid things like intentionaly overloading a tow vehicle and cited a case of a overloaded pickup hauling a GN trailer, No deaths but the owner had a note to pay on a totaled truck and trailer with NO INSURANCE PAYOUT.
I’m not
I am not interested in lawyers or insurance companies or overloading my truck. I’m interested in a heavier rated axle for more ‘headroom’ since I’m close to max weight.
- Staff
- #6
The axle isn't the limiting factor so much as your frame. The 11-19 axle has heavier tubes and is still an 11.5" rear axle. Not sure on the spring width or shock hookups.
- Staff
- #7
Virtually every hot shot driver out there legally runs over what the manufacturer rates them at. Once you register the vehicle for commercial use, you put down how much you want to haul with it, and your insurance company writes the policy. How else do you think guys use mid 90's Dodge's with the 12 valve to haul 36k gross combined to run with a car hauler that can hold 5 or 6 cars.
ak diesel driver
6.5 driver
That's not true in all states, I know it's not here.
BIGR
Lucky To Be Here
This is what those Dodge Truck owners are doing @THEFERMANATOR , a clear NO,NO.................
Don't try this folks, unless your on your own property and want to tear something up.........
This Wildly Unsafe Ram Pickup Towing a Mobile Home Is a Disaster Waiting to Happen
The load wasn't strapped and the trailer didn't have brakes—but wait until you see the hitch.
www.thedrive.com
Last edited:
BIGR
Lucky To Be Here
Disclaimer here: I do not encourage anyone to violate laws, whether they are criminal or civil. I am just adding my input here, and would like to here input from you all.
I understand what Oakwood (OP) is wanting to do, improve his truck with a little extra axle weight capacity. What's the harm in beefing up an axle or suspension as long as its done the right way? As long as he does not exceed the weight ratings, what could go wrong unless there was an accident and someone proved that there had been modifications done that altered the factory parts? Who would prove in a court of law that his modifications were wrong? Some expert witness engineer from GM? An ordinary lay person would think that improvements are better, right? As long as no ratings were ever exceeded, where is the liability? You guys are rebuilding these project trucks, beefing everything up on the frame and suspensions, no harm in making it better, right? Trust me I love improving things and making them better, I am just playing the Advocate here.
What if a guy has a single rear wheel 2500HD or 3500HD and wants to make it a dually. He changes the hubs and other parts I assume, then adds two more wheels to the rear. The bed has to be modified unless he is going to run a flatbed. I know that did not do a dang thing as far as increasing weight ratings, but it just gave him XXXX amount of pounds more as far as tire ratings. What would be wrong with adding a little tire capacity and stability? Yes tire ratings can get you in trouble just as much (with the law and legal stuff) in certain cases, than exceeding axle and gross vehicle ratings....see more info later on that.
What I am about to say is nothing to make you guys validate changing the axle or rating, I am just curious myself.
WarWagon, I know you and the other guys like Ferm along with many others have the knowledge on what would have to be done to change the axle making it stronger for more weight. I assume just changing the axle alone does not help that much. I suppose the springs and other suspension parts have to be beefed up to do any good?
I fully understand the legal issues that could arise if things go wrong. People add axles and parts all the time to large trucks and trailers. Yelp it increases what they can gross in certain areas on axles and axle groupings, but does not legally increase the axle ratings or vehicle ratings. Other words who can legally increase the ratings? The factory or the manufacture of that vehicle? Doubt that ever happens, because the factory does not want the liability? Could the truck dealership service department add an axle and somehow certify the axle weight rating increase? Maybe it is done, Will and some of you have worked in the truck industry, you might know the answer. Were mostly taking large truck stuff here like Freightliners, KW, Peterbilt's and such.
Ferm, I know what you are talking about, that happens all the time. No such Federal Law that I know of covering the part about exceeding the vehicle or axle ratings, see more info down below. Not only Hot Shot trucks but large semi trucks and straight trucks. It is not recommended and really brings up some legal issues such as what WarWagon is talking about. What those guys are doing, its a ticking time bomb about to happen. Those people need to realize, just because that truck will pull it does not mean it will stop it. Chances are they are also exceeding the tire ratings that we have been talking about. If something happens, people gets hurt and there is a civil suit, lawyers will go after individuals and companies. They love companies that have deep pockets. All they have to prove was the negligence and convince a jury.
As far as I know there is no penalty under Federal Law (Regulations) that would discourage a person from exceeding axle weight ratings and other vehicle ratings such as Gross Vehicle Weight Ratings. If there is one please show it to me now. Keep in mind that the Federal Regulations only applies to a Commercial Motor Vehicle. Most rules will not apply to us daily driver diesel guys unless we are hauling heavy and meet the criteria for a CMV. Now that is not to say that are not certain state laws that could penalize a person for exceeding the axle or vehicle ratings. A person has to check with the states that he lives in and could be operating in. My state has no such law. I could load my Chevy 2500HD down, exceed the ratings and no law is violated, BUT there is the civil liability part of it if I cause harm or destruction to other people and their property.
There are Federal Regulations that will shut down a (CMV) truck for exceeding tire ratings. Yelp that will shut one down for sure, there again you must be considered a CMV to be shut down, unless of course your state has some law such as the Federal Law.
Also as far as tagging or registering a truck at a higher weight than what its rated at, does nothing as far as the legality stand point, other than keeps you from getting an over tag weight violation. Other words if I want to I can tag my Chevy 2500HD for 40,000 pounds or more, but that does not mean I can haul it or would be exempt from civil action if I crashed and hurt someone. Lawyers would be all over that train wreck, saying you exceeded the ratings of your vehicles, your up the creek without a paddle.
Have I stirred the pot up you guys? Discussions are great, I appreciate your input on it. I am not an expert on the subject, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night.......
I understand what Oakwood (OP) is wanting to do, improve his truck with a little extra axle weight capacity. What's the harm in beefing up an axle or suspension as long as its done the right way? As long as he does not exceed the weight ratings, what could go wrong unless there was an accident and someone proved that there had been modifications done that altered the factory parts? Who would prove in a court of law that his modifications were wrong? Some expert witness engineer from GM? An ordinary lay person would think that improvements are better, right? As long as no ratings were ever exceeded, where is the liability? You guys are rebuilding these project trucks, beefing everything up on the frame and suspensions, no harm in making it better, right? Trust me I love improving things and making them better, I am just playing the Advocate here.
What if a guy has a single rear wheel 2500HD or 3500HD and wants to make it a dually. He changes the hubs and other parts I assume, then adds two more wheels to the rear. The bed has to be modified unless he is going to run a flatbed. I know that did not do a dang thing as far as increasing weight ratings, but it just gave him XXXX amount of pounds more as far as tire ratings. What would be wrong with adding a little tire capacity and stability? Yes tire ratings can get you in trouble just as much (with the law and legal stuff) in certain cases, than exceeding axle and gross vehicle ratings....see more info later on that.
What I am about to say is nothing to make you guys validate changing the axle or rating, I am just curious myself.
WarWagon, I know you and the other guys like Ferm along with many others have the knowledge on what would have to be done to change the axle making it stronger for more weight. I assume just changing the axle alone does not help that much. I suppose the springs and other suspension parts have to be beefed up to do any good?
I fully understand the legal issues that could arise if things go wrong. People add axles and parts all the time to large trucks and trailers. Yelp it increases what they can gross in certain areas on axles and axle groupings, but does not legally increase the axle ratings or vehicle ratings. Other words who can legally increase the ratings? The factory or the manufacture of that vehicle? Doubt that ever happens, because the factory does not want the liability? Could the truck dealership service department add an axle and somehow certify the axle weight rating increase? Maybe it is done, Will and some of you have worked in the truck industry, you might know the answer. Were mostly taking large truck stuff here like Freightliners, KW, Peterbilt's and such.
Ferm, I know what you are talking about, that happens all the time. No such Federal Law that I know of covering the part about exceeding the vehicle or axle ratings, see more info down below. Not only Hot Shot trucks but large semi trucks and straight trucks. It is not recommended and really brings up some legal issues such as what WarWagon is talking about. What those guys are doing, its a ticking time bomb about to happen. Those people need to realize, just because that truck will pull it does not mean it will stop it. Chances are they are also exceeding the tire ratings that we have been talking about. If something happens, people gets hurt and there is a civil suit, lawyers will go after individuals and companies. They love companies that have deep pockets. All they have to prove was the negligence and convince a jury.
As far as I know there is no penalty under Federal Law (Regulations) that would discourage a person from exceeding axle weight ratings and other vehicle ratings such as Gross Vehicle Weight Ratings. If there is one please show it to me now. Keep in mind that the Federal Regulations only applies to a Commercial Motor Vehicle. Most rules will not apply to us daily driver diesel guys unless we are hauling heavy and meet the criteria for a CMV. Now that is not to say that are not certain state laws that could penalize a person for exceeding the axle or vehicle ratings. A person has to check with the states that he lives in and could be operating in. My state has no such law. I could load my Chevy 2500HD down, exceed the ratings and no law is violated, BUT there is the civil liability part of it if I cause harm or destruction to other people and their property.
There are Federal Regulations that will shut down a (CMV) truck for exceeding tire ratings. Yelp that will shut one down for sure, there again you must be considered a CMV to be shut down, unless of course your state has some law such as the Federal Law.
Also as far as tagging or registering a truck at a higher weight than what its rated at, does nothing as far as the legality stand point, other than keeps you from getting an over tag weight violation. Other words if I want to I can tag my Chevy 2500HD for 40,000 pounds or more, but that does not mean I can haul it or would be exempt from civil action if I crashed and hurt someone. Lawyers would be all over that train wreck, saying you exceeded the ratings of your vehicles, your up the creek without a paddle.
Have I stirred the pot up you guys? Discussions are great, I appreciate your input on it. I am not an expert on the subject, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night.......
Will L.
Well-Known Member
Yeah, if ya stay in the legal side of things- nothing wrong with it.
When you say make the axle stronger- if you aren’t going to up the weight beyond design capabilities- you could improve things by doing an airbag suspension and ride adjustable shocks. The axle housing and tubes can be replaced with aftermarket ones that are made of way thicker metal. The axles themselves could be replaced with racing quail stuff- 4130 chrome - gears too. Off road shops sell most the goodies.
The question is what parts are you afraid of failure and what kind of budget. It isn’t hard to throw 5 thousand into a set up if bulletproof is the goal.
When you say make the axle stronger- if you aren’t going to up the weight beyond design capabilities- you could improve things by doing an airbag suspension and ride adjustable shocks. The axle housing and tubes can be replaced with aftermarket ones that are made of way thicker metal. The axles themselves could be replaced with racing quail stuff- 4130 chrome - gears too. Off road shops sell most the goodies.
The question is what parts are you afraid of failure and what kind of budget. It isn’t hard to throw 5 thousand into a set up if bulletproof is the goal.
The OP hasn't said what they are hauling. I assumed by talking about the axle weight limit it's above and beyond what the aftermarket can help with.
Generally it's the tires weight limit on the rear that is the weak link for pickups. (And on my one tons the tire rating is where the rear weight limit is from on the door sticker.) The axles themselves are generally not the weak link esp. on a 2005 one ton DRW.* The combined max axle ratings from the door sticker exceed the GVW rating of the vehicle: traditional bad advice from criminally ignorant RV dealers to make a sale.
*Unless you are mod bogging in the oil patch and snapping axles from tire spin or in a LS2 1/4 mile drag strip shootout where you are snapping them during a shift...
Many improvements for the factory suspension out there but it's dependent on what one is doing. A high center of gravity slide in truck camper is different than cargo or a 5th wheel/ GN trailer. Truck campers benefit from a stiff rear sway bar where a trailer wouldn't.
You can "get away" with overload on an RV till you don't. Commercial can bust you and put your truck and trailer out of service for overloaded conditions. Clear cases of commercial use and overloaded pickups resulting in big trouble after a wreck. RV use is a vague negligence.
Commercial insurance is a complete different ballgame that is like $500 per month for a 1 million liability policy. You are also subject to DOT weight stations. 3500 Pickups pulling a cargo trailer a specific distance like 1/2 day drive out of Phoenix have been subject to random stops to see if they are hauling commercial without proper "markings" and a "logbook".
Generally it's the tires weight limit on the rear that is the weak link for pickups. (And on my one tons the tire rating is where the rear weight limit is from on the door sticker.) The axles themselves are generally not the weak link esp. on a 2005 one ton DRW.* The combined max axle ratings from the door sticker exceed the GVW rating of the vehicle: traditional bad advice from criminally ignorant RV dealers to make a sale.
*Unless you are mod bogging in the oil patch and snapping axles from tire spin or in a LS2 1/4 mile drag strip shootout where you are snapping them during a shift...
Many improvements for the factory suspension out there but it's dependent on what one is doing. A high center of gravity slide in truck camper is different than cargo or a 5th wheel/ GN trailer. Truck campers benefit from a stiff rear sway bar where a trailer wouldn't.
You can "get away" with overload on an RV till you don't. Commercial can bust you and put your truck and trailer out of service for overloaded conditions. Clear cases of commercial use and overloaded pickups resulting in big trouble after a wreck. RV use is a vague negligence.
Commercial insurance is a complete different ballgame that is like $500 per month for a 1 million liability policy. You are also subject to DOT weight stations. 3500 Pickups pulling a cargo trailer a specific distance like 1/2 day drive out of Phoenix have been subject to random stops to see if they are hauling commercial without proper "markings" and a "logbook".