1992 Solid Axle Swap

[vdb11]

Hello all!

I have been reading up on this recently (like Jamie's thread) and I have a few questions.

I would like to solid axle swap my 92. However, I am on a VERY tight budget, I have a few questions for you guys.

If I find the axle at a good price, I will probably do the project, which means probably a 77.5-79 Ford Dana 44 instead of the 60. I have already found one at a decent price I just need to figure out what all I will need.

As for my use, I would like to lift the truck maybe 3-4 inches, leafs up front and probably blocks in the back. Is it even possible to do a swap and have factory height? I am not a crazy off roader. I do use 4wd a decent bit in the winter and on the farm. I may pull the truck once or twice a year, but nothing too harsh so I think the 44 will work fine for me.

Like I said, the budget is very tight, I am a poor college kid As some of you have seen, I am also doing a rebuild/buildup of the motor too here soon.

For my application, can I use factory brackets and hangers from a mid 80s chevy? or anything else? I know there are kits out there from ORU and ORD and others but they are out of my price range and I don't mind doing something that isn't bolt-on and spending extra time doing it. I would like to get as many parts from the junkyard as possible to keep the cost of this project down.

Some of the other things I have seen I will need to address:

Driveshaft, I read a custom one needs made, but I also read somewhere that a driveshaft from an 80s chevy could work in my situation (not much lift). Any ideas?

Steering. I have also seen I need to do crossover steering, does that all need to be custom made or can I use any factory parts? I saw my steering box can be used, anything else? I guess some pictures of different steering set ups would be helpful, since I am unfamiliar with what I will need to do.

Other little things, like brakes, can I use all my original brake parts and just extend the lines? I don't believe I have ABS since I don't have the controller box under the hood on the driver's side. Any other things I am forgetting?

Thank you guys for all your help, I have been doing alot of reading and trying to make sense of it Like I said, if I can do this project on the cheap then I will do it. I have the torsion bars cranked right now and the upper arms are almost touching the stops, plus I don't like the CV angles and the terrible ride ( I think my shocks are also shot), but my truck still sets too low for my liking. I have looked into IFS kits, but they are too expensive for me, and I have even thought about making my own IFS lift.

As I mentioned, I don't want anything crazy, like 3 or four inches at most of lift, stock wheels with either 265 or 285 AT tires. I like the way 90s Fords set, kinda high without being too high or impractical for what I need.

Thank you guys!

EDIT: I also saw mention of using a chevy axle and t-case (like the 205). What would be easier/less expensive? Any adapters needed for the t-case??

 

[88gmctruck]

Read my tech thread, it will probably answer almost all of your questions.

http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/showthread.php?18361-Tech-88GMCtruck-s-SAS-Dana-44-Build-(no-56k)

 

[vdb11]

Hey thanks!

Although the idea of keeping everything GM really appeals to me, it looks like fabbing up the linkage for the different t-case looks like a real PITA, although I applaud what you did there it looks very professional, I don't think I could ever fab up a system like that. I am leaning towards the Ford axle still but I do have a few questions for you....

I see you had to make a custom crossmember for the tranny, was this because the driveshaft would have made contact with the original? Do you think that would be necessary for me with only 3 inches of lift? After looking at your pictures it looks like you mounted the rear hangers pretty much as high as you can go and you still ended up with 8 inches of lift. You mentioned you added material to the boxed part of the frame under the cab, was this so that you could mount the rear hangers? And you cut out the front lower crossmember where the lower A-arms mounted, and made a custom one, why?

Also, the steering I am still a bit fuzzy on. I see you used a superlift pitman arm, would an aftermarket pitman arm be necessary for my desired amount of lift? Where did you get the crossover and parts for the steering? Also, I see you made a custom shock mount, why wouldn't the factory mount work, it it because the shock mounts on the axle are on the side instead of centered like IFS??

Thanks again for your help, and btw, the truck looks awesome!! I like the diesel bumper

 

[WilliamBos]

Why the ford axle?? The GM D44 has the pumpkin on the same side as the GM, steering will need to be set up the same, regardless of ford or GM.


Sent from my iPod Touch using Tapatalk, as if anybody actually gave a sh!t if it was a desktop, laptop, crackberry, I-phone or freakin' morse code or for that matter smoke signals...

 

[88gmctruck]

Hey thanks!

Although the idea of keeping everything GM really appeals to me, it looks like fabbing up the linkage for the different t-case looks like a real PITA, although I applaud what you did there it looks very professional, I don't think I could ever fab up a system like that. It was actually one of the easier things build for the truck, took less than an hour. All your really doing is making an arm to relocate the shift arm on the opposite side. I am leaning towards the Ford axle still but I do have a few questions for you....

I see you had to make a custom crossmember for the tranny, was this because the driveshaft would have made contact with the original? The passenger drop transfercase hangs lower so yes, the driveline would have hit. Do you think that would be necessary for me with only 3 inches of lift? If you kept your stock transfercase and used a ford HP axle, you won't need to change the crossmember. After looking at your pictures it looks like you mounted the rear hangers pretty much as high as you can go and you still ended up with 8 inches of lift. You mentioned you added material to the boxed part of the frame under the cab, was this so that you could mount the rear hangers? My rear hangers are about as high as you could go on the frame without going above it. I boxed the portion of the frame behind it (triangular shaped area) for additional support to for the hanger since they hold the truck up. And you cut out the front lower crossmember where the lower A-arms mounted, and made a custom one, why? For extra clearance for the springs. Honestly with as much lift as my truck has, there isn't much option to go lower. You mentioned you want 3" of lift, and IMO it would be difficult to have good performing from suspension (on leaves) at that height. As of now with the approx 8" lift, I still only have about 4" of uptravel, maybe 5" if you count the bumpstop into the equation. This isn't much uptravel for the suspension to oscillate or compress if you get a little air, and I've hit my bumpstops plenty of times due to this. It would be possible to gain a little bit of clearance by running a wider leave pack with less leaves.

Also, the steering I am still a bit fuzzy on. I see you used a superlift pitman arm, would an aftermarket pitman arm be necessary for my desired amount of lift? You have to change the arm to something else because the joint on the IFS arm is built into it. The superlift arm gains you the lowest drop and longest radius I could find at the time easily, without custom ordering. Where did you get the crossover and parts for the steering? I had the knuckle machined and bought the arms at DT Machine in Oregon. He sells on ebay. Tie rod ends are just garden variety GM stuff from the parts stores. The draglink and tierod are factory GM units, one shortened and re-tapped as the draglink. Also, I see you made a custom shock mount, why wouldn't the factory mount work, it it because the shock mounts on the axle are on the side instead of centered like IFS?? The IFS shock mount wasn't angled right for my axle, nor was it high enough up to accommodate the 34" shocks so I could fully utilize the articulation.

Thanks again for your help, and btw, the truck looks awesome!! I like the diesel bumper Not a problem, thanks for the compliment!

Why the ford axle?? The GM D44 has the pumpkin on the same side as the GM, steering will need to be set up the same, regardless of ford or GM.

IFS trucks are driver's side drop, just like older ford. Old GM stuff is passenger side drop.

 

[WilliamBos]

IFS trucks are driver's side drop, just like older ford. Old GM stuff is passenger side drop.

Thanks. It has been a long time since have owned SFA. Truck.

In this case, I would use the Ford D44 too.



Sent from my iPod Touch using Tapatalk, as if anybody actually gave a sh!t if it was a desktop, laptop, crackberry, I-phone or freakin' morse code or for that matter smoke signals...

 

[vdb11]

Thank you for the clarification! You make a good point about the uptravel. Although I do not off road, or at least in terrain like some of your pictures, I would imagine you would need a few inches of uptravel just for everyday driving. How does the stock set up on 80s trucks perform though? I guess I would really have to sneak those rear brackets up as high as possible. I could run wider leafs like you said, I am used to a terrible ride plus I need something a little beefy due to the extra weight up front. I guess a custom shock mount wouldn't be that hard to fab up, especially for a little shorter shocks than what you are running.

Few more questions as I am pondering what you said about travel....

Do the rear brackets and front brackets need to be perfectly level? I am assuming this is so, so that the axle is level and the driveline angle is correct, I guess maybe the back could even be a little higher to lessen driveline angle (?)

Why did you need to have the knuckles machined?, are they the knuckles from the axle originally? Did you have to machine them to accept the custom arms?

Ok I am starting to understand the steering, I will need to do more research on that too.

Lastly, what size leaves did you use? I think you mentioned they are from a 77, I was just wondering so I knew what to look for.

Thanks David!

 

[88gmctruck]

Thank you for the clarification! You make a good point about the uptravel. Although I do not off road, or at least in terrain like some of your pictures, I would imagine you would need a few inches of uptravel just for everyday driving. You most certainly will want a few inches of uptravel, or really stiff springs. How does the stock set up on 80s trucks perform though? Their frames are humped up farther there to compensate. I guess I would really have to sneak those rear brackets up as high as possible. I could run wider leafs like you said, I am used to a terrible ride plus I need something a little beefy due to the extra weight up front. I don't think my 99 K2500 rides bad by any means I guess a custom shock mount wouldn't be that hard to fab up, especially for a little shorter shocks than what you are running.

Few more questions as I am pondering what you said about travel....

Do the rear brackets and front brackets need to be perfectly level? I am assuming this is so, so that the axle is level and the driveline angle is correct, I guess maybe the back could even be a little higher to lessen driveline angle (?) I setup the front and rear hangers and shackle angles mocked up off the 73-87 trucks. Figured GM did that right, so doing the same would work out well.

Why did you need to have the knuckles machined?, are they the knuckles from the axle originally? Did you have to machine them to accept the custom arms? Unless you find an axle with them (doubtful) you'll have to also find a set of flat top knuckles. I'm not sure of ford years, but pre 76.5 in chevy had flat top knuckles. The passenger side knuckle needs to be machined to accept the steering arms for crossover.

Ok I am starting to understand the steering, I will need to do more research on that too.

Lastly, what size leaves did you use? I think you mentioned they are from a 77, I was just wondering so I knew what to look for. They are 52" rear springs from a 73-87 1/2ton. I took two of the 5-leaf packs and shortened two individual leaves to make a custom 7-leaf pack.

Thanks David! No problem.

 

[vdb11]

I guess I will have to try to find some stiffer springs for up front, that's no big deal. Haha well I think my front shocks are shot and I have the torsion bars cranked up too high so it rides terribly I don't blame it on the truck, its me. The thing actually skips and hops over manholes in the road its a little scary haha.

OK so I did a bit more research and I am starting to get the steering. Can I set it up like an 80s chevy? So a dropped pitman arm, a draglink from the pitman arm to the driver's side knuckle, and then a tierod from the driver's side knuckle to the pass. side knuckle? Sorry I am a bit slow at understanding this steering. And I assume I should have some sort of track bar from somewhere on the axle to the frame as well.

I see alot of flat top chevy dana 44 knuckles on ebay, would they fit a dana 44 from a ford? I see one pair of ford flat tops but they are a bit expensive.

Thanks again David you are a huge help!

 

[88gmctruck]

I guess I will have to try to find some stiffer springs for up front, that's no big deal. Haha well I think my front shocks are shot and I have the torsion bars cranked up too high so it rides terribly I don't blame it on the truck, its me. The thing actually skips and hops over manholes in the road its a little scary haha.

OK so I did a bit more research and I am starting to get the steering. Can I set it up like an 80s chevy? So a dropped pitman arm, a draglink from the pitman arm to the driver's side knuckle, and then a tierod from the driver's side knuckle to the pass. side knuckle? With the stock steeringbox where it is, it's not really possible due to the frame being in the way. 73-87 trucks used a side mounted push pull style steering that was greatly inadequate. Crossover is really the only way to do it reliably and safely. Sorry I am a bit slow at understanding this steering. And I assume I should have some sort of track bar from somewhere on the axle to the frame as well. Nope, I don't. Some people run a panhard bar with larger lifts to keep side to side movement in check, i haven't seen a problem with mine.

I see alot of flat top chevy dana 44 knuckles on ebay, would they fit a dana 44 from a ford? I see one pair of ford flat tops but they are a bit expensive. Chevy knuckles will work on a ford axle, but then you'll have to use all the chevy brake and hub parts as there are differences there as well. It's IMO easiest to find a early parts axle to get parts off, that i what I did.

Thanks again David you are a huge help!

Not a problem.

 

[vdb11]

OK so I was looking through your pictures again. So the steering is a dropped pitman arm, a draglink from the pitman arm to the custom steering arm on the passenger side (which is a tierod shortened and retapped), and then a tierod from the custom steering arm on passenger side to the custom steering arm on the drivers side knuckle. Also a stabilizer attached to the tierod and axle. Did I get that right? I am not quite understanding what exactly a "crossover" steering system and how it is different than 80s chevy steering besides custom arms and the tierod being mounted to the custom arms instead of the knuckle itself (and draglink goes to pass. side). Is that it? I noticed in your first pictures of the axle, the tierod is mounted normally, from knuckle to knuckle, and then when you put the custom arms on it was attached to them. Am I kind of getting it?

I will have to talk to the guy I found with the 44 axle and see if it comes with brakes, knuckles and all that. I know you used GM stuff but would hooking up the brakes and lines be similar to my truck now?

Also, I have been looking at how to mount these springs by looking at the lmc catalogs online. So it looks like for the 73-87 pickups the rear braket was mounted and the leaf pack was mounted directly to that, and the flex joint was in the front, which looks to be two thin plates connected through the boxed frame (and bushings of course) which hung down and mounted to the leaf pack under the frame, which then allowed the spring to flex at the front . I noticed your flex was in the rear and solid in the front with the custom brackets. Could I set it up like those trucks where my flex is in the front which would allow me to get close to the frame and also gain a good bit in the rear since I wouldn't need a hanger, just solid mount the pack to the spring bracket? It seems possible in my mind as long as I can get the flex joint strong enough in the front but tell me what you think.

Thank you!

 

[88gmctruck]

You got the right idea with the steering. Crossover means it crosses over from driver to passenger side. Early on in the build the OEM tierod was left to keep the tires together, that is all. It was moved when the steering arsm were on and I got the new tierod and ends.

Brakes are brakes. IDK what size fittings ford uses but the GM stuff worked with my existing hardlines.

You can do a shackle in the front or rear, it's up to you. Realize you'll get more lift putting the shackle in the front, and the axle will flex upwards and forwards as opposed to mine which is up and back.

 

[vdb11]

Haha yeah I figured brakes were somewhat universal, so the fittings and lines would be similar.

OK so I got the steering figured out, now I need to start finding parts haha. Are those custom steering arms made from aluminum?

I see what you mean about the flex though, it would flex up and forward, hopefully that wouldn't be a driveshaft issue.....

Thank you David! I have learned alot in the last few days!

 

[vdb11]

Hey all, back again! So the more I measure and look at it, it looks like its going to be really tough to do leaf sprung and only get 3 inches of lift. I can probably shave a few inches of David's set up, but it won't be enough.

Could anyone tell me a little bit more about coilovers? I understand they use a large coil spring which will require large pads on both the axle and frame, and then they have radius arms from the axle to the frame. I think there have been some people that have done this, any thoughts?

My truck is mostly street driven but I just wanna have that extra 4 wheel drive ability when I use it on the farm, plus I want to build the truck the way it should have been from the factory. Therefore, there won't be a need for a ton of flex or travel.

I am not scrapping the leaf sprung idea yet, but I think to get the height I want I need to avoid mounting the front of the leaf springs to the bottom of the frame, it needs to be on either side. Inside is really the only option because outside would then need to be mounted on the bottom of the frame in the back. However, it looks like the spring perches on the chevy and ford axles (one of them) is pretty much right beside the pumpkin, and cannot be moved in any farther. This is why the leaf spring idea doesn't seem to work with my plans. I could mount them like David's, but a spring that arches up like the factory chevys would probably hit the frame...

What do you guys think?

 

[6.2 turbo]

I used stock older Chevy springs on my 97, these springs lifted it about 3 inches. The complete swap was home made with 79 Ford front spring mounts and 85 f -150 rear shackles and mounts. It drives terrible,mainly because it has no sway bar or crossover steering,and it needs all the normal parts all ready like ball joints and u joints. If I had an 8 lug ifs,and drive alot on the road I would keep it ifs,the 6 lug is not as good. I want to totaly redo the swap,might even put the springs under the axle,so I can use better springs. And definetly a sway bar.

 

[vdb11]

Ha well for some reason I have a pretty bad ride as it is, and I think my IFS is going downhill due to the fact that the truck was beaten when it was young. That is a great idea with the springs though, I never even thought of that, that would save me probably four or five inches on David's set up.

I plan to do crossover steering when I do the swap, and a sway bar.

 

[vdb11]

Hello all again, this project is still on the burners, and I am kind of on the hunt for an axle, most likely a D44 out of 3/4 ton chevy at a junkyard. However, I found a D60 with low miles from a DRW truck. Will a front axle from a DRW truck fit my truck? What are the differences?

Thanks again guys. I am hoping to do this project over winter break.

 

[6.2 turbo]

Usually there is adapters on the hubs that simply unbolt.

 

[vdb11]

Hmm ok thanks 6.2, you are always willing to help me out That's what I read about the ford axles, I didn't know if the chevy axles were the same, were the adapters just to space the wheels out?

 

[DieselCash]

Hmm ok thanks 6.2, you are always willing to help me out That's what I read about the ford axles, I didn't know if the chevy axles were the same, were the adapters just to space the wheels out?

On the dually trucks the rims are off set so they can be stacked against each other with out the rubber or rim touching. On the front the offset portion is facing toward the outside or away from the truck. On the rear the offset portion faces each other. I will try to find a picture, I feel I explained it wrong.

On the front of the truck is a very solid spacer that mounts were a normal rimed tire would mount. Then the rim mounts to the spacer. It pushed the rim out enough to were the tire sits perfectly under the fender.

The spacer is pretty much the same for all three brands.(Chevy, ford, and dodge)

Dually rims



Super 60 with dually adapters