New Injection Pump Shelf Life

[MrMarty51]

Marty your reman IP worked for me during my brief test runs. At worst it is some sort of seal causing the problem. The hard components should be fine. Do not condemn it.

Nope. Pump is coming off and getting checked out.

 

[DieselAmateur]

My .02...

Not worth the risk/ trouble/ hassle buying a "new reman" DS4. Doesn't matter if all seals and small parts have been replaced, if the H&R is worn then it's shot. And if there are no new DS4 head and rotors available then any reman unit is on borrowed time.

I understand buying one of the last new DS4 pumps is an easier job than a DB2 conversion. You can buy a core for cheap and send it to a pump builder. Quadstar used to have "250 HP" DB2 pumps for sale for around 800 bucks but I don't see them on the website anymore. You can do the conversion without needing a standalone trans controller so long as you leave the APP in place. You have to fabricate your own way of attaching the throttle cable to the pedal but the trans will shift even with the DS4 gone. Not sure how smooth it will shift but there are folks who have done it.

Second thing that would really help with the DB2 conversion is scoring the rare '96 tstat crossover that was single stat and block off but still routed back around the A/C compressor. It will leave a lot more room for the throttle bracket to clear. And if you upgrade to a different upper intake you'll have much easier access to the pump for timing adjustment.

 

[MrMarty51]

My .02...

Not worth the risk/ trouble/ hassle buying a "new reman" DS4. Doesn't matter if all seals and small parts have been replaced, if the H&R is worn then it's shot. And if there are no new DS4 head and rotors available then any reman unit is on borrowed time.

I understand buying one of the last new DS4 pumps is an easier job than a DB2 conversion. You can buy a core for cheap and send it to a pump builder. Quadstar used to have "250 HP" DB2 pumps for sale for around 800 bucks but I don't see them on the website anymore. You can do the conversion without needing a standalone trans controller so long as you leave the APP in place. You have to fabricate your own way of attaching the throttle cable to the pedal but the trans will shift even with the DS4 gone. Not sure how smooth it will shift but there are folks who have done it.

Second thing that would really help with the DB2 conversion is scoring the rare '96 tstat crossover that was single stat and block off but still routed back around the A/C compressor. It will leave a lot more room for the throttle bracket to clear. And if you upgrade to a different upper intake you'll have much easier access to the pump for timing adjustment.

I was looking into the DB2 system.
There are is one auto salvage yard in this county. The owners of that yard has taken a liking to the 6.2 and 6.5 platforms too. There is nothing in their yard related to these engines or trucks that is for sale.
Then there’s Billings, several yards over there but I have not taken time to contact them.
I just do not have the time right now to be trying some conversions.
I have a trip to Ohio coming the 18th of this month.
I’m needing to get this truck back on the road real quick like.
After I get back from Ohio then I am thinking I will do the DB2 conversion but it will be done right, well, as right as a conversion can be done on one of these trucks.

 

[MrMarty51]

I got a big portion of the IP removal out of the way this evening.
Was working along just fine and then the rain started, again.
I tough @ss’d it out for a while but then finally said skewer it, gathered the tools and shut it down for the night.
Flight Systems IP tracking says Thursday.
I just hope its a good one.

 

[Will L.]

I wouldn’t do a db2 conversion to eliminate problems and not buy a brand new one.
Last I saw the trans controller is $600.

You don’t need the rare 96 crossover. If you find one great, otherwise look at the link in my signature. You can accomplish the same thing with that, a couple diy brackets, and some fittings and a bit of 1” hose.

I was under the impression there is new head/rotor & complete new ip being made for the ds4. I could be wrong.

 

[MrMarty51]

I wouldn’t do a db2 conversion to eliminate problems and not buy a brand new one.
Last I saw the trans controller is $600.

You don’t need the rare 96 crossover. If you find one great, otherwise look at the link in my signature. You can accomplish the same thing with that, a couple diy brackets, and some fittings and a bit of 1” hose.

I was under the impression there is new head/rotor & complete new ip being made for the ds4. I could be wrong.

Yup.
I did check in the prices of the transmission controller, then the other components thats required.
Be best to come up with about a 93 or so accel pedal unit from a gas, IDK if the cable is the same as a diesel.
This is something I’ll be looking into over the next several years.
I’m plenty happy with how the electronical pump performs and I’d not be wanting to boost a mechanical to get more power. This engine seems to have plenty as it sets stock.
Just something that will be in the future for in case a mag bomb gets dropped.

 

[jrsavoie]

Are there any places that would rebuild either of your injection pumps that you could overnight it to And get it back in decent time?

Could your air infiltration be after the fuel supply hose to the IP - at the nipple or the fuel pressure gauge T area?

 

[MrMarty51]

Are there any places that would rebuild either of your injection pumps that you could overnight it to And get it back in decent time?

Could your air infiltration be after the fuel supply hose to the IP - at the nipple or the fuel pressure gauge T area?

QuadStar Tuning sells the pumps remanned by Flight Systems.
I imagine a person would have to be a registered flight systems dealer in order to get a pump direct to them.
The pressure T-Gauge area should all be under the 9PSI pressure so I would think it highly unlikely that the suction side of the pump would create enough vacuum to over come that pressure.
I am guessing that the vacuum side leak most likely would be coming in from the rotary shaft seal.
I did post in a thread of the Stanadyne manual to tear down and reassemble the DS4 pump.
I am now hoping that @denata will make a post in that thread of how to do the total setup to get the DS4 pump to function as He has done.
I know the optic sensor has to be wired in and also the pump driver.
IDK if that also requires the PTC module(ECM) to also be wired in and something to fool the system into thinking there is a throttle sensor too ?
But it would need to have the pin out diagram also.
A thread where if a person would dismantle their pump, install new gaskets and seals, get it all back together, then, they also would have the diagram and means to also test it.
The pump thats sucking air, the engine had to be kicked up to about 1500 RPMs for the air intrusion to be a often event, closer to 2000 RPMS produced greater results.
If a test stand is put together and the fuel from to the pump, and the return was pushed through clear hose then the supply and the return could be monitored for air intrusion, and, a drill would produce enough RPMs to get the pump to the desired RPM range for a steady stream of air intrusion if there would be any.

 

[jrsavoie]

I know there's Triangle Diesel in Irwin Illinois and the place in Michigan I used to use.
I don't know that either are still doing 6.5 Diesel injection pumps.
I sold the 1996 with rebuilt injectors and injection pump for less than the IP was worth.
I know Triangle Diesel was still rebuilding 6.5 Diesel injection pumps at that time.
I'm sure there's a few others that are trustworthy.

The only way you could find cost and turnaround time would be to call them.
I'm not sure what shipping would be to overnight an IP.

I've seen times where a fittings wouldn't leak under pressure, but would suck air.

How much air pressure can you put to the pump inlet to test for leaks?

I don't know what damage could be done, putting air pressure to the pump inlet.

Or how much air pressure you could put there without doing damage. 50 lbs? 100 lbs?

 

[MrMarty51]

I know there's Triangle Diesel in Irwin Illinois and the place in Michigan I used to use.
I don't know that either are still doing 6.5 Diesel injection pumps.
I sold the 1996 with rebuilt injectors and injection pump for less than the IP was worth.
I know Triangle Diesel was still rebuilding 6.5 Diesel injection pumps at that time.
I'm sure there's a few others that are trustworthy.

The only way you could find cost and turnaround time would be to call them.
I'm not sure what shipping would be to overnight an IP.

I've seen times where a fittings wouldn't leak under pressure, but would suck air.

How much air pressure can you put to the pump inlet to test for leaks?

I don't know what damage could be done, putting air pressure to the pump inlet.

Or how much air pressure you could put there without doing damage. 50 lbs? 100 lbs?

15 max fuel pressure.
If there is a leak it should show under that, unless, pressure would press a seal tighter against a shaft, where rotation and vacuum would create a looser fitting seal and create a leak.

 

[denata]

To assemble the electronic part of the stand, you will need a 12V battery. A 5V voltage stabilizer microcircuit of the 7805 type, a 10kOhm resistor, FSD with a radiator and a wiring harness, several pieces of wire, a soldering iron, and insulating cambric tubes. Optionally - a multimeter, an oscilloscope.
In order for the pump to inject fuel into the injector, it is necessary to send a pulse to the FSD, we will receive the control signal not from the PCM but directly from the optical sensor. In this case, we will not be able to dose the fuel, when using a signal from the CAM sensor, the dosage will be maximum.
The PCM doses the fuel by changing the pulse width to the FSD. We will send a pulse equal to the width of the window in the optical sensor disk.
I'll draw a diagram later

 

[MrMarty51]

I think I’ll need to find someone that understands electrical circuitry a whole lot more than I do.
I dont have a clue what mist that stuff is.
Maybe I can send the components that I have on the shelf to someone in the forum that knows whats this is all about.

 

[denata]

It's all simple there, you can handle it. The eyes are afraid, but the hands do it.

 

[denata]

 

[MrMarty51]

View attachment 94335

That all looks to be simple enough.
That I will try. Just probably not right away.
Too many irons in the fire at this moment.

 

[MrMarty51]

Locked it down.

No more air passing through the clear return hose.

 

[Big T]

Locked it down.
View attachment 94363
No more air passing through the clear return hose.

Is the roughness or hesitation gone?

 

[MrMarty51]

Its a runnin mighty fine.
Took it for a 16 mile run and its never run better.
Thank You everyone for putting up with me and alla mine shortcomings.
It now feels and sounds so good its ready for the Ohio journey.

 

[MrMarty51]

Is the roughness or hesitation gone?

Yup, just a mighty sweet runnin truck, once again.

 

[Big T]

Its a runnin mighty fine.
Took it for a 16 mile run and its never run better.
Thank You everyone for putting up with me and alla mine shortcomings.
It now feels and sounds so good it’s ready for the Ohio journey.

Marty, I find that persistence wins the day and you most definitely got it. May God bless this 6.5 Optimizer with a long life.