Why a 6.5?

[Hill Top]

I'd like to see your own personal reason for driving a 6.5 also how much have you spent on your truck and can you or do you justify the expense. Me I like this body style truck for one. With a 93 you don't have a lot of computer crap to deal with which I hate. It's simple and when I pop the hood I know what everything is and what it does. I just do feel a bit silly when I think about perhaps dropping in a new engine knowing it far exceeds the value of the truck.

 

[FellowTraveler]

I'd like to see your own personal reason for driving a 6.5 also how much have you spent on your truck and can you or do you justify the expense. Me I like this body style truck for one. With a 93 you don't have a lot of computer crap to deal with which I hate. It's simple and when I pop the hood I know what everything is and what it does. I just do feel a bit silly when I think about perhaps dropping in a new engine knowing it far exceeds the value of the truck.

The overall condition of the vehicle and if it is a keeper or not should be the up front considerations.

Dumping money into a beater is foolish however the cost of everything these days revolves around the value of the dollar which is way down low while IMO salaries have not increased as fast too keep up.

Do the work yourself and your ahead of the game....

My Burb listed out at $55k and I perhaps put another $30 into it over the years not including fuel.

I also have full insurance coverage to include upfitted and modification parts costs....but I'm the only basket case I know that has this coverage on a 99 Burb.

 

[Hill Top]

I bought my truck for 2700, its not a beater but anything that old will need money spent on it at some point. With repairs and mods ( unexpected transmission) I probly have 7500 in it at this point. Really all things considered Any truck you buy is a loosing proposition. Generally speaking vehicles go down in value so you'll never really get back what you spend on anything as a general rule I guess.

 

[JayTheCPA]

I'd like to see your own personal reason for driving a 6.5 . . .

Lower complexity, less cost than an DI, and most parts are still available.

I just do feel a bit silly when I think about perhaps dropping in a new engine knowing it far exceeds the value of the truck.

If you like the truck and it still has good bones to it, maintaining it correctly is generally less cost than going out and buying something new(er). Granted that no vehicle is free from oddities, but at least the 6.5's issues are well known and there is still a community that looks to improve on OE.

At one point I was at a decision on motor replacement and whether to replace the 6.5 motor, buy a new(er) truck, or convert to a Dmax. Once the wife saw what DI injectors cost, the decision was easy and we stuck with the 6.5.

Sure, the 6.5 is not the powerhouse in comparison to a current DI motor, but the 900+ft/lb ratings look more like bragging rights than usefulness for most consumers.

 

[Will L.]

My current 6.5 is the hummer. I bought it used for $29,000 in 2003ish.
I put around $16,000 into it including new optimizer, rebuilding the tcase from fulltime into 2wd capable at one point. Then tons of tires I destroy on the regular, all my maintenance, adding a centermount turbo, and the slantback w/ rack and brushgaurd.

I have put over 100,000 miles on it. I turn down unsolicited offers of $20,000 about once every 3 months. So i figure 20-45=25k over 100k miles is $4.00 per mile. Not the best value, until figuring some of the places it has been and how safe we were in it compared to a pickup.
The wife found it for sale and took me to look at it without even telling me that is what we were going to see shortly after our '99 3500 srw almost went off a cliff with 3 of us in it. (She did of course here me talking about them for the previous decade however).
I also feel like I should get to deduct the $ saved in not buying a 4wheeler or dirt bike to the equation. My entire extended family all has them- even my passed on Grandma used to ride a 3 wheeler! I was always the "chase" rig anyways, now I do it in comfort- haha.


Honda says they have best resale value- my a$$!! Every hummer ever made never lost more than 60% value at its lowest, and at 20 years old are worth full original price if in good condition, if not more. Side rant over.

All my other 6.5s got amazing dollar per mile usage. I made money on everyone of them. Even the "race" ones, since GM donated them- even though some never made it 1/4 mile- haha.

I have never bought any rig new. The first couple years are super pricey dollar:mile. I'll always wait a few years out to get something. I feel for you guys that dont get to keep any truck 20 years because of rust. Snow is a 4 letter word...

 

[Hill Top]

Lower complexity, less cost than an DI, and most parts are still available.




If you like the truck and it still has good bones to it, maintaining it correctly is generally less cost than going out and buying something new(er). Granted that no vehicle is free from oddities, but at least the 6.5's issues are well known and there is still a community that looks to improve on OE.

At one point I was at a decision on motor replacement and whether to replace the 6.5 motor, buy a new(er) truck, or convert to a Dmax. Once the wife saw what DI injectors cost, the decision was easy and we stuck with the 6.5.

Sure, the 6.5 is not the powerhouse in comparison to a current DI motor, but the 900+ft/lb ratings look more like bragging rights than usefulness for most consumers.

Yes I agree with you especially about the price of parts and and useful power. Since I've made the mods I have, I can easily pull anything I need to. While 900ft lbs makes me smile, I don't really need it.

 

[Will L.]

I bought my truck for 2700, its not a beater but anything that old will need money spent on it at some point. With repairs and mods ( unexpected transmission) I probly have 7500 in it at this point. Really all things considered Any truck you buy is a loosing proposition. Generally speaking vehicles go down in value so you'll never really get back what you spend on anything as a general rule I guess.

You have to remember that you are buying the miles you drive. What is current IRS write off, something like 50 cents a mile? That means that what normal expense is to go from point a to point b.

The rig can loose value, and technically you should figure dollar cost averaging to know if you are really ahead of the game, but in that scenario you need to look at cash flow too.

Putting $12,000 into a $5,000 truck seems dumb at first, until you consider if that 10k will buy you another 200,000 miles. New engine & trans (provided rest of the truck is up to snuff) maybe another $3k in steering/suspension is $15k. That is 75 cents a mile-


As for the go fast trucks vs 6.5 how often are they using that 900 lbs of torque? My off road capacity drives my $:mile ratio way up, but I use it all the time. I suspect 99.99% of high power truck owners never use half their power more than 1 hour per month.
Granted, that would be a nice hour to have under my foot...

 

[1994ch]

I'd like to see your own personal reason for driving a 6.5 also how much have you spent on your truck and can you or do you justify the expense. Me I like this body style truck for one. With a 93 you don't have a lot of computer crap to deal with which I hate. It's simple and when I pop the hood I know what everything is and what it does. I just do feel a bit silly when I think about perhaps dropping in a new engine knowing it far exceeds the value of the truck.

You listed some of my big reasons.

I am currently swapping a 6.2 into a 96 tahoe. Looking to get good fuel mileage, and getting rid of a lot of wires under the hood. I try to justify the expense by #1 if I bought a diesel tahoe I would have to spend about the same amount, #2 It is a fun project that is teaching me a lot #3 I should get a vehicle out of the deal that is not as expensive to maintain (because I can do all the work on it myself)

I keep my 1994 truck running (just spent about a grand replacing two cracked heads) but I still think that was cheaper than trying to go for a newer truck (and I think that newer trucks are more expensive to work on because of the added complexity) I think there is a good chance I would take the plunge for a new engine when the time comes.

I also think that the rest of the vehicle is better quality. My dad put around 300,000 on a 09 suburban with no big power train problems, so I can't complain there...... However, he got rid of it in 2015......so it was only 6 years old and the door locks...windows...mirrors... etc....etc... had many problems. My truck is over twenty years old and everything works fine (well...I think I need to clean and lubricate the electric seat)

 

[Hill Top]

You listed some of my big reasons.

I am currently swapping a 6.2 into a 96 tahoe. Looking to get good fuel mileage, and getting rid of a lot of wires under the hood. I try to justify the expense by #1 if I bought a diesel tahoe I would have to spend about the same amount, #2 It is a fun project that is teaching me a lot #3 I should get a vehicle out of the deal that is not as expensive to maintain (because I can do all the work on it myself)

I keep my 1994 truck running (just spent about a grand replacing two cracked heads) but I still think that was cheaper than trying to go for a newer truck (and I think that newer trucks are more expensive to work on because of the added complexity) I think there is a good chance I would take the plunge for a new engine when the time comes.

I also think that the rest of the vehicle is better quality. My dad put around 300,000 on a 09 suburban with no big power train problems, so I can't complain there...... However, he got rid of it in 2015......so it was only 6 years old and the door locks...windows...mirrors... etc....etc... had many problems. My truck is over twenty years old and everything works fine (well...I think I need to clean and lubricate the electric seat)

Yeah I think that way too, I don't have to put DEF in it and 10,000 grand would only buy another used truck that I would not know exactly what I had no matter how well I checked it out.

 

[1994ch]

10,000 grand would only buy another used truck that I would not know exactly what I had no matter how well I checked it out.

Exactly right!

 

[WarWagon]

@FellowTraveler I have not had luck finding "full insurance coverage to include upfitted and modification parts costs" and not for a lack of trying. Who you going through?

I own one because I was ignorant at the time a 6.5 was just a punched out 6.2. I would have run SCREAMING if I had known that biased on the problems we had with an 1988 6.2. I own the 1993 because I could buy it CASH during "The Great Depression V 2.0" and needed "diesel" to run a parts route per the broker. You couldn't get a loan for a new truck during a specific time.

Gotta say "the internet" has made owning a 6.2 a helluva lot more pleasant in troubleshooting and keeping it running. Nevermind the improvements available...

Point of fact: new 3/4 ton trucks cost $40-70K. Rust isn't an issue here. $12,000.00+ (Quit adding it up around that number) put into an old truck that we have run for 7 years is not bad being 1/4 or less the cost of new. No not an Optimizer, P400, etc: It's all the little s#it that adds up quick. Working on the 6.5's to the point of ridiculous has it's downside and one reason I don't own the 1995 Suburban anymore.

As an aside I have less cash in my 1992 "project truck" than a rebuild of the Cumapart cost me. It's over 50% less! The Cumapart rebuild/replacement still less than 50% the cost of a new truck and NO EMISSIONS. The availability of cheap military surplus parts helps keeps mine and other 6.x rigs on the road. Further cheap parts allowed me to hot rod without concern for the cost of an replacement engine.

As an aside I still roadtrip Patch when the Cumapart's in the shop. There is a fine line when things get to heavy and dangerous to do yourself that has been crossed.

So Cheap parts vs. the new diesels and the plates cost $7.50 per year now due to age. The $27 Emission test costs me more...

 

[schiker]

I still like my truck but mostly sticker shock at dealers! I am conservative. I'll have to break down and buy a new (er) vehicle in a few years but hope I can keep this one for dirty work. Hope not to turn into GM-Guy just it'll be worth more to me than I can get selling it or trading it.

 

[Hill Top]

Yea I like my truck and the cost of a new one is more than I gave for my farm. I hate emissions that gets piled on trucks more and more every year. It will never be worth as much to another as It is to me. Driving it is kinda like making a statement. I do get comments on it. My father in law freaked out because my wife and I drove it on a thousand mile round trip one weekend. He couldn't believe we took a 23 yr old pickup with nearly a quarter million miles on it that far! Lol. Hey it gets better fuel economy than my Hummer!

 

[Sand]

A new base model 3/4 ton 4x4 is 50k here. If you sign the papers and circle the lot its now worth 40k.
In 5 years it has a used value of 18,000
Im happy to spend money on repairs and even catch the odd $2000 major repair on a 20yr old truck.
I could never find enough wrong with it to spend the equivalent of a $750 a month payment on a new truck or the 32,000 dollars it will devalue in the first five years.

 

[Hill Top]

A new base model 3/4 ton 4x4 is 50k here. If you sign the papers and circle the lot its now worth 40k.
In 5 years it has a used value of 18,000
Im happy to spend money on repairs and even catch the odd $2000 major repair on a 20yr old truck.
I could never find enough wrong with it to spend the equivalent of a $750 a month payment on a new truck or the 32,000 dollars it will devalue in the first five years.

The more you look at it, if your willing to do some expected repairs, driving a 20+ truck can be a smart thing. Maybe thats the best way to look at it, not what it's worth in as what it will bring, but in how much your saving by not buying a newer truck when the old can do the same job.

 

[GM Guy]

A wise man once said: "No matter what you do, there is no such thing as the perfect truck."
He may have been talking about semi trucks, bobtail trucks, and winch trucks for his salvage yard business, but the same applies to pickups.

The phrase I add onto it is "But there is such a thing as the perfect fleet"

Since we farm, salvage combines, and broker used farm equipment, we need a variety of trucks to do stuff.

Need to stay under 26K combo out of state, need a pickup box equipped rig to go into California, need a 3500HD for heavy bumper hitch loads, need one automatic 4wd that you dont love to do stuff with that you wouldnt do with trucks you love, need a backup truck, need a truck that can sit in a shed 1000 miles away and be available for a quick blast back to KS if needed, etc.

So, with the need for a fleet, but not having a very flush bank account thanks to living on a dryland farm in western KS, what do you do? Buy the best value in trucks today. For the price of a beat to shit Dodge Cummins, you can have a pristine 6.5L. For the price a wrecked and possibly burnt Dodge Cummins you can have a rough but roadworthy 6.5L.

Some of the value comes from the GMT400 platform. IMO this is the pinnacle of trucks, just new enough to have many creature comforts and modern designs, but just old enough to be well made and designed for the long haul. they are the most comfortable trucks I have ever driven, or slept in. Yes, my 6'4" frame can curl up quite nicely on the front seat, and get a good nights sleep. Hotel de la' 6.5
Build quality higher than that of Dodge, especially when comparing 93 and older. Build quality comparable to Ford, but much more refined and better designed, and much smoother riding and much safer handling.
A drivetrain that is engineered to work together, no weak links like Dodge and Ford automatics, no weak front ends that try to kill you like dodge, no frames that break like dodge, no firewalls that break out around the clutch master like ford, etc.

Most of the value comes from a fuel sipping cheap to work on IDI V8 diesel that gives you everything you ask of her, but you have to ask nicely and have to court her first, and cant request something impossible.

I have long felt the 6.5L requires attention similar to a modern electronic diesel. Something goes wrong? Dont keep driving, fix it. They are sensitive to neglect, like a HPCR is with a bad injector.

So basically Dad buying the first GMT400, the 98 C3500 350 5spd started the love for the GMT400 platform, and the value the 6.5L offered got me interested in them.

 

[consaka]

The overall condition of the vehicle and if it is a keeper or not should be the up front considerations.
Dumping money into a beater is foolish however the cost of everything these days revolves around the value of the dollar which is way down low while IMO salaries have not increased as fast too keep up.
Do the work yourself and your ahead of the game....
My Burb listed out at $55k and I perhaps put another $30 into it over the years not including fuel.
I also have full insurance coverage to include upfitted and modification parts costs....but I'm the only basket case I know that has this coverage on a 99 Burb.

Tsk tsk tsk. No apologies for dumping money into drive train components no matter the age. I also carry parts insurance on my '83 chevy van that has the turbo 6.5 in it. It also has fairly new 4L80E and a new rebuilt np208 transfer case with locking and limited slip diffs. Now some people would call it a beater but not me. Sure it needs a little paint here and there and some door seals could be replaced but hey it has a fridge to keep things cold and a bed to sleep on. I have used it for working away from home and we use it camping and long family trips to WI. all the time. Of course back there the in-laws think it is awesome because everything 10 years or older is completely rusted out.

 

[Hill Top]

Glad to see some who look at it like I do.

 

[consaka]

I'd like to see your own personal reason for driving a 6.5 also how much have you spent on your truck and can you or do you justify the expense. Me I like this body style truck for one. With a 93 you don't have a lot of computer crap to deal with which I hate. It's simple and when I pop the hood I know what everything is and what it does. I just do feel a bit silly when I think about perhaps dropping in a new engine knowing it far exceeds the value of the truck.

Well I lean toward 1993 and older with upgrades from the newer engines. I have a 94 suburban but mostly using that one for parts. Last January I spent the most money ever on a used 1993 C3500 dually crew cab. $1700.00 Sure it had a horrible blown gasket but a little patch and I drive it every day. It rides pretty good and is solid on the road. I'll put the engine from my van in it eventually if I can figure out what is causing the low oil pressure.
I can't see spending tons of money on a new truck that will still need maintenance work and injectors replaced down the road. A cost that is nearly that of this old truck. And don't get me started on the DEF crap. Who needs that hassle and added expense? Plus I like to do my own work and those newer trucks are just more work then I am interested in and that is factoring in the learning curve for some of the new tech.
Besides we don't make that kind of money and I don't fancy debt for the next 15 years.
Sure it is a little like gambling to hit craigslist and try to pick a truck. lol But for me I look for a straight and clean body since I hate body work. I generally don't care about the engine as long as its diesel because I plan on rebuilding them the way I like them eventually. My wife just read that and laughed because my first 600 dollar truck is still being used on 7 cylinders with one being disabled due to a broken piston. (fed the injector into the return line)
For me though I see it as a hobby. I don't work on trucks for a living any more but I still like to tinker with improvements.

 

[Hill Top]

Well I lean toward 1993 and older with upgrades from the newer engines. I have a 94 suburban but mostly using that one for parts. Last January I spent the most money ever on a used 1993 C3500 dually crew cab. $1700.00 Sure it had a horrible blown gasket but a little patch and I drive it every day. It rides pretty good and is solid on the road. I'll put the engine from my van in it eventually if I can figure out what is causing the low oil pressure.
I can't see spending tons of money on a new truck that will still need maintenance work and injectors replaced down the road. A cost that is nearly that of this old truck. And don't get me started on the DEF crap. Who needs that hassle and added expense? Plus I like to do my own work and those newer trucks are just more work then I am interested in and that is factoring in the learning curve for some of the new tech.
Besides we don't make that kind of money and I don't fancy debt for the next 15 years.
Sure it is a little like gambling to hit craigslist and try to pick a truck. lol But for me I look for a straight and clean body since I hate body work. I generally don't care about the engine as long as its diesel because I plan on rebuilding them the way I like them eventually. My wife just read that and laughed because my first 600 dollar truck is still being used on 7 cylinders with one being disabled due to a broken piston. (fed the injector into the return line)
For me though I see it as a hobby. I don't work on trucks for a living any more but I still like to tinker with improvements.

Amen to that!