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Busticated LuK Clutch

Called South Bend today. 415.00 for the stock replacement kit, 605.00 for the performance kit good for 375HP. These prices are for just the clutch kit with no flywheel. I keep wondering how the Centerforce DF would feel and perform, but for a 100 Benjamins less I had to take a look at the Zoom.

Zoom was a no show today.:(
 
I have the South Bend in my truck and guess what? Stamped right on the disk is LUK. I put the performance one in mine and has been in the truck for about 2 years now. I did notice one thing with the SB clutch though, it is either engaged or not engaged. for mine there was no middle of the road for engagement. Don't forget if you are switching from a dual mass to a single mass setup you also need the vibration damper that goes on the back oft the transmission. http://quad4x4.com/images/qu10172.jpg

Dan
 
tazz said:
I have the South Bend in my truck and guess what? Stamped right on the disk is LUK. I put the performance one in mine and has been in the truck for about 2 years now. I did notice one thing with the SB clutch though, it is either engaged or not engaged. for mine there was no middle of the road for engagement. Don't forget if you are switching from a dual mass to a single mass setup you also need the vibration damper that goes on the back oft the transmission. http://quad4x4.com/images/qu10172.jpg

Dan
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Welcome to TTS seeing how you are still fairly new.

Good info! :thumbsup:
 
tazz said:
I have the South Bend in my truck and guess what? Stamped right on the disk is LUK.
Dan
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That is kinda what the guy from Centerforce told me. I guess there is a good bit of work making the metal disc for every application and the friction material is where the money is at for high performance applications.

I am not sure how the material would help longevity of the disc unless a good positive lock up reduces harder spikes of force transmitting into the disc when it slips then grips ???? I guess that sounds pretty plausible.
 
Hey, thanks for the welcome, I post on some of the other 6.5 sites around but I just recently came across this site and there seems to be a lot more enthusiasm here. When I first got my truck it was all stock and I soon learned the wonderful world of working on 6.5's. As you can see I've only done the basic mods and I am quite happy with the way that the truck runs. She just turned 2000000 a few months ago and I drive her every day, the only thing i don't care for is the 4.10 gears as I do mostly highway miles right now. But as for the clutch when I did it I bought it as a kit, clutch, pressure plate, bearing and flywheel. Since I put the clutch in a few years ago I really haven't talked much about it so I'll give some of my thoughts on it. Seeing that I was switching fom the DM to the SM setup the first thing I got was the vibration damper from a local shop and the price is a lot better than I could find on the web and had them install it, all total for that was around a $180. The first thing I noticed when I got the clutch was the lack of springs on the pressure plate they have these type of dampers instead and the other fact that it is stamped LUK. To be honest I wasn't very happy seeing that but.... So after the install which went nice and easy the other thing that I noticed is that the clutch now catches at the very top. Like I said with this clutch it is either engaged or not, there seems to be no middle ground on that for me but the clutch has been rock solid. I have had 3800 pounds of dirt on the back of her and she didn't miss a beat. I towed a full size car trailer with a 1968 Pontiac Lemans back from VT and I forgot It was behind me, so what I'm saying is this has been a pretty good clutch so far. The only other thing is the clutch is a little noisy when in neutral but not half as bad as the old duel mass was with all the broken springs it had.

Dan
 
SCREAMINXL said:
Why do you feel it is necessary? Some say you need it and some say nope. This clutch went 55K with out one and has been pulled it's whole life.
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Well the book says it should be there. Don't forget that when switching from the dual mass that there is no more dampening with the lack of springs that were there. The dual mass was setup to absorb the diesel spikes that get sent in to the drive line but this style clutch, I fell was a poor design, That's evident with the failure rate of the springs breaking. All those vibrations have to go somewhere and that is what that damper is designed to do, absorb them. You may not have problems now but something has to give or wear in time and I'm not willing to take that chance.
 
Is that why my 7.3 chatters like crazy when in neutral......Seems no one can rebuild that ZF tranny, "CORRECTLY".........now I have a problem with reverse!
 
They fail with the dampner installed too. The 6.2 used the same flywheel/transmission and as far as I know didn't have this dampner. Is it for driver comfort or drive line durability? I asked the Zoom tech if their clutch could hold a 6.2 NV4500 with banks kit. He said their clutch is over engineered and would hold up just fine with the extra power the turbo kit adds. What is so different about a 599 6.2 and 599 6.5 that a dampner is required? The main question that I cant get a straight answer is was it added for human or mechanical factor? both?
 
I am with you screaminxl seems some clutch people said dampener was necessary some said nope. I think it might be a really long term wear or quietness thing of the transmission. I question how extra weight on different sides of the spring pack (the clutch disc couples the crank to the transmission input shaft) is going to help dampen spikes on the springs significantly. Seems to me the crankshaft is pulsing and vibrating trying to transmitt these vibes into the driveline and the springs are absorbing them. The transmission still absorbs some but softened from the springs. I can see if they get out of sinc of vibes will seem to fight each other in the disc hub spring pack. To me the transmission dampener just adds mass to quiet the noises of theses transmitted softened pulses in the transmission. But also adds mass to feed back against the crank when vibes are out of sinc??? Mine is a 97 with the SMF and I get some funny groans and sounds when lugging low rpm low speed from the transmission. I would guess with out the dampener they would be just louder.

Now a fluid dampener crank dampener will dampen crank vibes on the same side of the clutch as the flywheel and help dampen transmitted pulsesing into the clutch pack.
 
SCREAMINXL said:
They fail with the dampner installed too. The 6.2 used the same flywheel/transmission and as far as I know didn't have this dampner. Is it for driver comfort or drive line durability? I asked the Zoom tech if their clutch could hold a 6.2 NV4500 with banks kit. He said their clutch is over engineered and would hold up just fine with the extra power the turbo kit adds. What is so different about a 599 6.2 and 599 6.5 that a dampner is required? The main question that I cant get a straight answer is was it added for human or mechanical factor? both?
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As far as I know all SM have the damper whether it be a 6.2 or 6.5. I'm sure that what the Zoom tech said is true for handeling the extra power but that isn't what the question was. To be on the safe side I'll say they have the damper for both human and mechanical because I just don't know. I do know that wheather you dampen before the trans or after you still get the same effect, less spikes going into the drive line.
 
Its just not intuitive to me. Yes, I understand some things about dampeners being tuned for frequencies and is mass to absorb vibration with rubber. But when it comes to momentum and weight vs speed I just question it some.

Some of my joe avg thoughts about it are.....

If I have a light Q stick and push it really fast I get a good break in pool. If I have a heavy Q stick and push it slow I can still transfer a lot of force into the Q ball and get a good break. So in my mind the dampener is absorbing vibes but also increases mass such that even with slower vibes its like a heavy Q stick. It may transmitt a good amount of vibration force back into the springs of the clutch due to the added mass of out of sinc vibes.

I can see how a dampener is tuned for a specific harmonic but as variable as it is with tire size and driving style I see it as a big ole compromise and can see in my minds eye that under some circumstances (depending on driving style, road conditions, tires, load, engine rpm etc) the dampening is not all that good and it then is a bigger mass just fighting the crank vibes out of sinc. ????

Its not all that applicable of arguement but the Dodge doesn't have the dampener, the ZF, or Ford I don't think ???

To me the fluid dampener has to help cause its not rigid. I don't think its possible to make a tuning fork out of a fluid. Fluid can't really support a shear force over time and thus more forgiving for different frequencies. But, different rigidity rubber or hardness steel can be tuned for different frequencies.
 
I think you may reading too much into the theory of how this setup works. The springs that we are talking about are in the dual mass flywheel and when you switch to single mass you now have a solid flywheel, no springs = no dampening. I believe that harmonics has nothing to do with this situation and it is only the hard spike you are trying to get rid of. What I mean is when the different gears are meshing and spinning they are slapping together, with no springs (solid flywheel) it makes the hits that much harder, with the damper it takes up for those hard slaps with its mass. Same way with your cue, with a light one when you break really hard you can feel the vibrations through the stick and into your hands but with the heavier cue those vibrations are less.

Dan
 
My understanding is a DMF has springs inside and dampens some crank vibes. A DMF clutch disc has fewer springs of a different force. There is a combined dampening of DMF plus the clutch disc springs with that set up.

A SMF is rigid and the clutch disc has a different spring pack and the clutch disc has to absorb all the harmonics. So, with less dampening effective mass in the SMF vs the DMF the SMF transmission gets an added dampener put on the transmission shaft.

There seems to be a difference in quality of feel or vibration in different weights fo Q's A light stick will I think vibrate at a higher frequency ,for longer, and with smaller amplitudes of vibes. A heavy one will vibrate slower, smaller amplitude, and not as long. I don't have a good intuitive feeling for the difference in fatigue affect on a shaft, bearings, or clutch pack springs ???? Is it a noise sound affect GM was dampening or a wear fatigue issue is the question I think some of have.
 
schiker said:
Now a fluid dampener crank dampener will dampen crank vibes on the same side of the clutch as the flywheel and help dampen transmitted pulsesing into the clutch pack.
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I was thinking along these lines also. I would rather spend the money on a FD then the trans dampner.

Side note. I built this engine (has 55k on it too!) and had the rotating assembly balanced (both balancers, flywheel, clutch disc & pressure plate and new injectors from a member on DP whom runs a diesel injection shop. The engine runs super smooth. Shifting and clutch feel is more consistent and the transmission is/was quiet and smooth. Trans made less noise and vibrations than the old DMF and stock 175K 6.5. Possibly the DMF was shot? Pilot bearing was power/dust and was probably the cause of some vibrations if not all.

I have read info about the DMF being for low RPM engine pulse/spike control below 900 RPM. If you own a 6.5 what the hell are you doing below 900 RPM unless you idling? Push in the clutch and select the next lower gear!
 
tazz said:
As far as I know all SM have the damper whether it be a 6.2 or 6.5. I'm sure that what the Zoom tech said is true for handeling the extra power but that isn't what the question was.
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It most differently pertains to this. Why does the 6.2 SMF clutch disc on have 5 pockets with 10 springs total and the 6.5 SMF clutch has 10 pockets with 20 springs?

I know this statement is headed out to left field but............................what would happen to my drive train if I had a 93 6.2 NV4500 and swapped the tired 6.2 for a fresh complete 6.5 turbo and used the 6.2 clutch? Armageddon?
 
SCREAMINXL said:
It most differently pertains to this. Why does the 6.2 SMF clutch disc on have 5 pockets with 10 springs total and the 6.5 SMF clutch has 10 pockets with 20 springs?

I know this statement is headed out to left field but............................what would happen to my drive train if I had a 93 6.2 NV4500 and swapped the tired 6.2 for a fresh complete 6.5 turbo and used the 6.2 clutch? Armageddon?
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which brand clutch are we talking about? The S/B that I have dosen't have springs it has dampers and if I remember correctly ther is only three or four of those.
 
I have determined that I live in the Bermuda triangle of shipping. No, UPS hates me..............ok I live in BFE. No clutch yet!!! Gonna push the 6.5 out in the cold so I can install some gauges in the denali.

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Already had the Air Fuel Ratio Gauge. Hope it looks good in the overhead console.
 
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