what happens when you change the fuel filter with bad LP

[VW_Lupo_TD]

can someone SHOW or tell me exact location of fuel IP shutdown solenoid wire ?

just changed the fuel filter after it would not drain the fuel from filter housing. i turned open the air bleed valve too fast and it died on me. there was no fuel coming from drain (T-handle open).

after i could not get it started again, i took out the old filter and soaked up the old fuel with paper towels and cleaned out the fuel filter housing as good as i could. the little screen is still there.

put the new filter in and closed everything back up.

do not know where to

" Disconnect the fuel IP shutdown solenoid wire " to bleed the air from the manager/ filter housing, as i never had to do that before. but now i am afraid there is too much air and it cannot handle it.

running out of battery power, please help.

thanks in advance for your replies.

 

[Turbine Doc]

No need to disconnect wire it energizes open not closed, you'll want to run the lift pump, go to OPS troubleshooting thread, in it are pics of the lift pump run jumpers for OBD-I, so you can force lift to run without cranking

 

[VW_Lupo_TD]

so, i did exactly as I was told, put the shutoff solenoid back and ran the lift pump using jumpers directly from battery to G (no key in ign necessary)

however, no results after a few minutes, no fuel from air bleed valve.
so i take the fuel filter out again (the gasket manages to fall apart into a rubber ring and a small metal ring - GRRREAT!), fill the manager almost completely with diesel (it was bone dry and did not even smell of diesel) and try again.

upon jumping the lift lump for a few minutes no fuel coming out of air bleed valve,
i try cranking again just to see what happens - nothing.

i am running the battery charger the whole night and try again in the AM.

any other ideas what could have happened ?
remember i barely turned that air bleed valve 10 degrees and the truck immediately died and i could not get it back to starting since then.

thanks in advance for your replies.

PS: how long should i have waited for fuel to come out of the drain tube with the engine running ? how long does it take for you guys ?

How long could it take for the lift pump to prime / bleed the manager ?
I hear it working but that is all.

 

[buddy]

Your lift pump must not be working, even if its making noise, or you have a clogged tank sock.

 

[ak diesel driver]

Just because you can hear the lift pump does not mean it is working. They will make noise and still not pump fuel. I have personal exp with this.

 

[Turbine Doc]

Fuel out the drain tube should be immediate with engine running, since yours died I suspect the lift is not pumping, and you sucked air into the IP via the drain. It is purring but not pumping, it should pump fuel rather quickly with powered via jumper, this a new lift pump ???

Is it installed correctly for flow, for test can you put on a jumper hose to suction side of the pump into a bucket of fuel and see if the lift pumps, call me tomorrow on the cell after 12 CST as I'll be in church till then. Mite wanna give Dennis a holler also and see if he can lend a hand. IIRC you are close to leaving on your trip, if you do find a bad lift pump, most part stores have them, the one for a 93 6.5 is more gph than the later ones. IP will pull it's own fuel through a weak/purring lift pump but top end power will be down, if your IP looses prime though it does not have enough oomph generally to reprime, if in a bind here is an old trick that worked on carburated gassers with no lift pump.

Fill large funnel with fuel, connect the funnel to the filter mgr drain open valve keep funnel full while cranking and it should keep IP primed until it clears air from fuel injection system; then possibly you could get it running lonng enough to get a new lift pump, as I think that is where the issue is,

Or a plugged tank sock, to test that disconnect the lift inlet line, with fill fuel cap off blow back toward the tank, and you should hear bubbling fuel in tank, I did it on side of road dead once with lung power only, but have since made adapter for my cigarette lighter air pump.

I remember as boy one of my neighbors in GITMO Cuba when Dad was stationed there (us with him), had an old 50 something Desoto, no fuel pump to be found for it, so made a rack on the roof to hold metal fuel can, tapped it to take fuel fitting, brazed it, then made feed line to the carb, and would fill the can and let gravity feed the carb fuel bowl, max speed on base was 35 mph so really did not need much pressure other than gravity. He would fill the can every day, and carried spare fuel cans in trunk, you had to see it to believe, in 1971 they werent real concerned about vehicle safety much on the base there.

 

[Burning oil]

Jump the lift pump again then grab ahold of the LP and see if you can fill it pumping. If not check for 12v at LP plug if thats good LP is no good. If it is pumping and If you get it running again grab the LP again this time if the LP is not pumping your OPS is bad. It is a sign the LP is bad when you crack the drain valve and the engine dies. Most likely your LP is/was bad and you did not know it. The IP can/will suck fuel from the tank. But, now that there is air in the system the IP really won't start the engine with out help from the LP.

Normaly with a good LP it might take a minute to bleed the filter. You need to bleed the filter, so that means getting the fuel to it. How you get fuel to it is by having a working LP. Once you do that you will just need to crank the engine about 20 seconds at a time until it starts. Give alittle time for the starter to cool before getting it to hot if it does not start the first couple of tries.
Also I like to jumper the fuel pump relay instead. That way Im right there to pull the power and shut the bleed on the filter as soon as fuel comes out of the filter (less mess/waste). It is so common to have to do this on these trucks I actually tied my jumper wire to the Hydro boost line to keep it handy.
Keep us posted.

Edit: I just read you sig and see you have a 94, that even easier to jump the LP. Just remove the LP fuse from its holder on the fire wall. Look at the top of the fuse, you will see two metal areas that is actually connected to the fuse. Just touch the metal area to the cosest stud on the fire wall right next to the LP fuse it is suppling 12v all the time

 

[VW_Lupo_TD]

it was a fairly new (replaced 4/18/08) lift pump from heath, cannot believe my luck on this one.
I already packed all my tools.
i will bang on the lift pump until that ***** comes back to life and try again in the AM.

i would hate to get one of those damn advance parts and of course my tank is almost full also ....

autozone also only has them airtex units, are those actually worth anything ?

at least they would be open tomorrow.

 

[ak diesel driver]

"Or a plugged tank sock, to test that disconnect the lift inlet line, with fill fuel cap off blow back toward the tank, and you should hear bubbling fuel in tank, I did it on side of road dead once with lung power only, but have since made adapter for my cigarette lighter air pump."



If the sock in the tank is such a problem why not just remove it. I thought I read you had a filter before you lift pump, why not just get rid of it?

 

[Turbine Doc]

If the sock in the tank is such a problem why not just remove it. I thought I read you had a filter before you lift pump, why not just get rid of it?

Because it is 70 micron and will keep large stuff from plugging the suction tube over time, and way it is shaped it sort of acts like a pickup foot to help pull in fuel whan it's sloshing in the baffle tray

 

[ak diesel driver]

I would have thought if it was that dirty it would need to be dropped and cleaned

 

[VW_Lupo_TD]

guys if i am assuming correctly you are speaking of dropping the tank.
i will go ballistic if that is really the case.
will try to get some sleep and go see in the AM.
a bad LP would already be bad enough with all the tools already in storage.

napa sells a delphi unit, sounds better than airtex, but i would not trust any of their parts if I had a choice. i would go OE or heath.

 

[ak diesel driver]

No that last ? was for TD you shouldn't have to drop your tank.

 

[Burning oil]

I bet ALL the LP's are made by one or two companies.

Just ran outside to take a couple pic's
Here are some pictrues that may help you or someone else.
1996 LP relay jumper




I keep a pressure guage on the drain line. Just crack the drain valve for a quick reading.

1993/1994 [and I think 1995?] LP fuse jumper trick. Touch metal tab to stud.

Notice metal tab thingy's ontop.

 

[VW_Lupo_TD]

since i doubt banging on the lift pump will help any,
i will start changing the LP.

just need a friend to bring me some tools, but i cannot ask any of them for non metric tools since all those damn Germans refuse to have that stuff in the house, let alone work with it ;-)

now i was just thinking - i hear the LP do "something" so the OPS cannot be bad right ?

 

[Turbine Doc]

correct if you hear lift then OPS it providing power, so it really it pointing finger at lift or lack of fuel to it, will catch up with you later I'm off to church, you still in Detroit??? if so ring up Dennis.

 

[VW_Lupo_TD]

no problem and if u still read this or use a crackberry in church ;-)
then tell me if you want me to get a 93 6.5TD lift pump.
i am assuming so.
calling advance right now, already broke the nuts on the old one.
and yes i am still in god ***** damned detroit, scheduled to leave TODAY.
sorry for all the cursing ;-)

@ burning oil: the trick with the LP fuse jumper trick is nice !
as you said nice to do it that way, especially when you are working alone
and have to see what is going on with that bleed valve.

advance does not have a 93 in stock, but an E3309 one, that also comes
up in the sticky part # thread, although not the higher PSI one, oh well ....

any tips from anyone in regards to changing the lift pump itself ?
last time i did it, i was given the common believe that there will not be
much diesel running out of the lines once I took the old one out and
i took a BATH in diesel ;-)
well at least this time I am expecting it, but shielding will not work cause it
will run down your arms into your sweater and soak everything from inside ;-)

thanks everyone for helping

 

[Burning oil]

IIRC (thats the first time I have used "IIRC"} the ops could still be bad. While cranking the LP is supplied 12v via a different circuit then when the truck starts 12v comes from OPS. So, thats why I said in the above post to check the LP while jumping the LP fuse and after engine is running.

Edit:Just noticed page 2 of this thread. Anyway another thing you may have noticed is if you are cranking the engine long enough to build oil pressure on the gauge and the truck does not start, but you can here the LP running, that tells you the OPS is still good. Sometimes I here my LP continue to run a few seconds after shut off. As long as there is oil pressure for the OPS it will keep 12v going to LP

 

[ak diesel driver]

Take the fuel cap off the tank in case there's any pressure in it.

 

[VW_Lupo_TD]

gentlemen, i am happy to report that the burb is running again.
removed the old heath LP replaced with airtex unit,
bled the air via LP fuse jumper trick, cranked it couple of seconds and it started right up.
nothing can stop my departure now - I am out of here like a

;-)

and THANKS A MILLION again for all your replies and help.