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to chip or not to chip?

B

bucholzi

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Location
Norway
Hi,
new to the forum and new to 6.5td. Recently bought a 95 k1500 suburban as a family hauler (boy, do I love the space :smile5:). And I'm trying to decide to chip it or not. These engines have a fairly poor reputation here in Norway, but when you look closer it's mainly related to PMD failures and "heavily abused" engines. When it comes to engine failures it is often said that chipped engines are heavily in majority, and chipping is usually not recommended if you want the engine to live a long and happy life..

However, even though the engine is fairly fresh, the rest of the burb is fairly old and with a somewhat high mileage and will probably be worn out long before the engine if I leave it stock and handle it with care. So why not get the best out of the engine while the burb lasts, I reckon..

So, how much (if not at all) will I compromise the reliability of the engine if I chip it? I'm looking for increased mileage and performance for non-towing setup (no heavy hauls), any recomandations on chips/vendors? As far as I understand some chips will give me better glow plug cycles (it's quite cold here in the wintertime) and less wear on the tranny with better shift programs?


Some background info:

The engine has recently been rebuilt (only 20-25.000 km since) with reman block and all new internals, I think the heads, the turbo and the IP and injectors were re-used. The rest of the truck has run 240.000km, tranny shifts good.

Mods that were already done when I bought it are 4" straight pipe exhaust, Holley blue lift pump with pressure gauge, extra diesel filter, increased diesel flow to IP, boost-master and boost gauge, relocated FSD (on cooling ribs behind bumber) with #9 resistor, and tranny temp gauge. Gonna put exhaust temp gauge on, and most likely a silencer on the exhaust.

I'm running at best 16 mpg, but a heavy foot quickly lowers it to 14 mpg. Which I often have, and sometimes WOT when passing other cars (there are not many roads here with two or more lanes in one direction..) Tires are 275/75-16 BFG AT. I'm not gonna haul anything substantial behind it, we got an 89 F250 which we subject to the heavier tasks. It's a pure family hauler.
 
The main thing is to have an open exhaust which you have and gauges. If you keep the exh. temp. below 1050*F you should have no problems. Heath is recommended here in N. America but where you are located have a look at www.EnghMotors.com
 
welcome aboard, fill out signature for future ease of help.

modifications to any engine can be a benefit, Heath makes a good economy chip. just remember that when you alter factory programming, and push the engine YOU are responsible for monitoring its health. with no heavy use, a gl4 and turbomaster should start you down the right road for better performance and reliability--JMO, I am preferential to HEATH. BTW might want to look into new injectors
 
Chips don't blow engines, drivers do. You can pop an engine with or without a chip depending on how you treat it. They run and shift much better with a chip. I highly recommned chipping.
 
I agree with the guys above me, bucholzi ... putting a chip in a diesel engine won't hurt it at all, as long as you have an open exhaust (I know you said you had 4", but make sure your downpipe - off the turbo - is at least 3" and that it is mandrel-bent - nice round corners, not squashed up as the stock ones always are in 95 trucks) and make sure your turbo is running enough boost. Anytime you start getting lots of black smoke, you have a 'not enough air' situatio, which really raises EGTs. You are correct in wanting to get an exhaust temp gauge. If you don't plan on being an idiot with it, or pulling really heavy, then you'll find that it will run better than it ever has and last forever with a chip in it.

I also highly recommend Heath chip (GL4) and Turbomaster (www.heathdiesel.com), but as pointed out, Stefan at ENGHmotors might be a cheaper alternative for you over there.
 
Engh doesnt require a core charge or to send your stock chip to him. If you plan to keep the truck and like to do maintenance, Engh also sells (also a free version) a scanner software for a laptop and a USB to OBD1 cable.
 
Thanks!
I reckon most that have had problem with a chip have installed in a stock truck and then just had fun while it lasted.. I always try to take care of my trucks, keeping an eye on the important parameters while driving, so I reckon I will manage to stay out of trouble.

Maybe Engh will be a good place for me, will try to make contact after the easter holidays. For now the truck runs smoothly without any smoke, and starts just fine, so I wasn't planning on touching the injectors or IP quite yet. Should I look into it before a chip, so the chip can be flashed accordingly if I choose marine injectors or maybe these? Or is it of no concern?
 
bucholzi said:
Thanks!
I reckon most that have had problem with a chip have installed in a stock truck and then just had fun while it lasted.. I always try to take care of my trucks, keeping an eye on the important parameters while driving, so I reckon I will manage to stay out of trouble.

Maybe Engh will be a good place for me, will try to make contact after the easter holidays. For now the truck runs smoothly without any smoke, and starts just fine, so I wasn't planning on touching the injectors or IP quite yet. Should I look into it before a chip, so the chip can be flashed accordingly if I choose marine injectors or maybe these? Or is it of no concern?
Click to expand...

If and when you need new injectors go with the stock or marine's. I cannot see how injectors can increase mileage unless the old ones are worn. Then any new injector would help.
Leo​
 
Forget injectors from SSD if you are overseas, their UPS only shipping policy is likely to 2-3x the cost of the injectors, where exactly are you located maybe we have a member near you that might have some shipping alternatives that can save you some $$$. Without a chip/flash "marine" injectors are a waste of $$$, those are last power adders to be looking for, SSDs "economy" injectors have not been shown by those that have them to be as advertised, best economy regulator for now is the right foot. Later on adding a A Team Turbo can save you some coins as far as mpg goes.
 
Turbine Doc said:
Forget injectors from SSD if you are overseas, their UPS only shipping policy is likely to 2-3x the cost of the injectors, where exactly are you located maybe we have a member near you that might have some shipping alternatives that can save you some $$$. Without a chip/flash "marine" injectors are a waste of $$$, those are last power adders to be looking for, SSDs "economy" injectors have not been shown by those that have them to be as advertised, best economy regulator for now is the right foot. Later on adding a A Team Turbo can save you some coins as far as mpg goes.
Click to expand...

Shipping is no problem, I usually have it sent to an adress in the US, to a freight company which airfreight it to Norway and drop in the post for the last leg. Usually much cheaper than direct shipping.

Marine injectors I reckon also need a different IP to supply more diesel, in order to get an actual HP increase? I guess it won't help my mpg's. First of all I'm looking for an improvement in mpg, so I reckon standard injectors are the stuff for me.
 
no need for a different IP there bucholzi. Ours supplys a decent amount of fuel to kep the marines happy. If your looking for an increase in MPG's then your best bet is with the following
-Open up air intake and exhaust.
*a nice wide open intake will allow the turbo to spool faster, and draw in more air with less work involved. More air into the cylinders means more fuel being delivered. A wide open exhaust(as you seem to already have) is also a must. Like Jifair said make sure your downpipe is mandrel bent. Otherwise your just wasting your time and money.
-A turbo master will definatly help as with the stock wastegate system it throws boost all over the place.
-Our diesels actually don't use chips(OBD1 do but yours is obd2 so its all good) We require the PCM to be reflashed. PLaces such as bully dog diesel, heath diesel, and enghdiesel are all good names. Avoid the SS diesel stuff. I'll x2 on recommending a Heath chip, It will go well with the trubo master, and since your changing injectors, go with heaths HO Injectors. You will see an increase in mileage with all of these goodies.

Best recommendation is to stick with, as already mentioned, Heath Diesel. He is the man to talk to when going with these changes. You WILL NOT be disapointed.

Have fun, and good luck!

P.S. - If your willing to spend a good coin then definatly go with the A-team Turbo. Slim Shady and Turbine Doc here on the DTR spent months testing, modifying and designing this setup. There are a few memebers around here who are running this system and are as happy as can be. That thing will up your mileage like nothing else.
 
Most of the people who chip engines are probably the same people who over-use and push to the envelope of the engine, chipped or not chipped.

It's easy to find the limit of an engine. Problem is, once you found it, you need another engine :)

I plan on Heath 'chippping' my rig soon, after exhaust is finally finished.... I still plan on driving the exact same way.. Smooth , fluid weight management. My theory is, modding my rig just makes it feel 'lighter' ... Would be cheaper to just toss the tools, but I kinda need those too :)
 
You'll love it, Matt... makes it like a new truck. I couldn't believe how I had ever gotten used to driving it stock.
 
I'll second that JiFaire. I was sorely disappointed in myself for going so long before finally getting around to adding a chip on the '95. I went with a Kennedy chip and have been very pleased with both engine and transmission responsiveness.

Although a moot point, as the OP states he already has a mechanical boost controller, I am going to disagree with BigBlue on the vacuum system "throwing boost all over the place."

A well functioning, ECM controlled, vacuum actuated wastegate control is probably going to be more responsive and lead to both better performance and economy than a simple spring-controlled pressure relief. That said, I wouldn't dump a bunch of money into fixing one as I would bet the difference is very hard to measure. (He says as he is in the middle of figuring out a no boost condition...:) ) - I actually am thinking about plumbing the pump (known good) directly to the actuator (also known good) and bypassing the solenoid altogether...:)
 
eh. Just making a statement. I haven't gotten around to doing any wastegate changes so I tend to describe my boost as "being all over ther place" cause watching my boost guage seems to do that. After about a minute of cruising with no interuptions(red lights, idiots pulling out infront of you, ect, ect, ect) It will cut boost, then build up, cut and buildup. Even for those without a boost gauge you can hear it. Turbo is whistling nicely, then seems to fall off, then seems to spool back up. Guess thats what it seems like to me. oh well. But I'm liking your idea with the vacumn pump directly controlling the wastegate. I would presume that as the engine speeds up the pump creates more of a vacumn thus closing the wastegate more to provide more boost? How do you plan on fooling the solenoid? Surey it must throw a code due to not "seeing" boost there.
 
No! Basically, plumbing the pump directly to the actuator is the equivalent of wiring the wastegate shut. Max boost all the time.....call it the 6.5 version of JuiceGrips (TM) :)

I figure I can get away with it until the weather gets better or I get the use of one of my garages back and figure things out for real. With a 1/2 ton Tahoe and no towing or hauling and both boost and EGT gauges, I can keep an eye on things and not hurt anything. Right now I am running a random spring I found in my shop and a piece of bailing wire ;)

Based on what I have diagnosed, I figure my issue is in the ECM itself, so I am probably just going to go with a home-made manual controller. It is a shame as my original pump and actuator are fine as is the tubing, and I have a brand new solenoid. Who knows, maybe I get lucky and find a wiring harness issue that I can fix easily....
 
I want to say going from working vacuum controlled boost to turbo master boost (not even set at 15psi recommended 2 inches) back to 2 1/4 max i've seen is 12 spike hardest normal climb 9psi.

I want to mention the MOST important thing i've noticed about the switch to manual wastegate is my EGT's dropped a few hundred degrees!

Not sure if i lost a mpg or not, but my EGT's are WAY cooler... Can't wait for the exhaust to be fully opened up.
 
I keep hearing that the vac-controlled system is best, but I gotta tell you, I just don't see it. Mine worked exactly the way it was supposed to, and the Turbomaster is SO much better!!
 
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