The Right Dozer

[dms4x4]

I'd like to buy a machine for the following uses on my farm land in north central Kansas:

Clearing cedar, locust, and osage orange (hedge) trees from pastures
Cleaning up some old building sites / burying what's left
Building some small ponds
Building some terraces

I made a list and took a SWAG at what I thought it should cost and it came to around $40,000. I set an arbitrary budget of $30,000 +/- and have been looking at crawler dozers, loader dozers, and wheeled loaders. The plan would be to keep the machine for 3-4 years until I had everything done, then sell it. I made a bid on a D8K on an internet auction, but came in about 3rd. That's a huge machine and would be a hassle and expensive moving it around. I'm right now considering an D7E.

What type of machine and model do you think would best suit the applications?

 

[ak diesel driver]

It would be helpful to know a little more info. Terrain, soil conditions, volume of material. Without more info My machine of choice would be an excavator w/thumb

 

[dms4x4]

It would be helpful to know a little more info. Terrain, soil conditions, volume of material. Without more info My machine of choice would be an excavator w/thumb

Hmmmm............ I never really thought about an excavator.

The land is not flat, but slopes are not an issue at all. It's central Kansas dirt, no rocks to speak of. The cedars are up to 20" at the base, hedge trees any where from 4-18" at the bottom. There's places where you can't drive through, and can barely walk, so the trees are pretty dense. I've been attacking these with a turbo saw on a skid loader for the last couple years, but it's not going very fast. I have one pasture with probably 50 acres grown up, a second pasture with maybe 30 acres, and a third with maybe 8-10 acres. The building sites have a couple old houses ready to fall down, and are also grown up with trees. Then there is some assorted junk in some ditches that needs to be buried.

I have zero experience with dozers, or excavators for that matter. My experience with the saw attachment is that if the tree being cut falls in to those standing, it gets very difficult to keep going. Of course the stumps are left in the ground, which will preclude using the land for hay production, and makes it rough to drive around on it.

 

[ak diesel driver]

I would def use an excavator. then you can pull the stumps as well . You can get some excavators with dozer blades on them as well. No I'm not talking about minis either. Those tend to be on the newer models tho and not very common. Once you use an excavator with a thumb it's hard to step down to something less.

 

[bison]

I'm in the process right now of doing some land clearing,its a tough row to hoe no matter how you look at it(costly too).
A D7 can do a lot,but pushing 20" tree's over is tough for them as well,hedge rows and willows are even tougher as there's so many roots and branches and de blade either digs in or slides over.
Excavator...Maybe,i got no experience with these on clearing.

I found my wheel loader (AC 940) can push trees easyer than a cat cause one can engage the tree way higher than a cat,i had no problem felling 12" dia trees ,roots and all.

I opted to buy a mulcher to clean out everything it can handle and leave the big trees for a logging company to take out.
I can grind/mulch the stumps at a later date.

But then i'm looking for grazing,not for hay land.

 

[dms4x4]

I found my wheel loader (AC 940) can push trees easyer than a cat cause one can engage the tree way higher than a cat............

A dirt contractor close to home told me the exact same thing. He has a Cat tracked loader, 965?, that will root them right out. Then I got to thinking a big wheel loader would have nearly as much mass as a dozer, plus would be easier to move between my places, which is about 3 miles.

I can see how an excavator could dig things out, and with a thumb, pull the brush out and pile it up in the process, which from my experience with the saw, is half the job. Plus, the excavator would pull the old houses that need to come down much easier than a dozer or loader. Not sure how it would do trying to build ponds and terraces. Can you get a feller for a track hoe?

 

[bison]

yes you can put a feller buncher head on the track hoe,matter of fact you can put one on a loader too,an option i'm thinking about next.

with a grapple on the loader you can push trees out and stack them some where else,something a cat can't do either.

 

[ak diesel driver]

In a perfect world you'd have more than 1 machine. With only 1 compromises will have to be made.

 

[bison]

2 out of 3 eh!

 

[dms4x4]

In a perfect world you'd have more than 1 machine. With only 1 compromises will have to be made.

I want to live in the perfect world with lots of toys.

I was looking at you tube last night. there's some good videos of track hoes tearing trees out by the roots, then using the thumb to pile them up. Pretty slick. Also saw the loader with feller wackin' em down, too. Entry price for a hoe seems to be in the $50G range, then go up real fast from there, re: equipment locator, machinery trader, etc. Wheel loaders start in upper 30's. Dozers seem like they're all over the map, but lots of money any way you look at it. There doesn't seem to be an abundance of older dozers in Kansas, so more $$ have to be in the budget to haul one in from 3-500 miles out.

What I'm scared to death of is buying something, then getting it home and having major problems.

 

[chevyCowboy]

I cut trees for a living, mostly residencial stuff but we have some big equipment that we use as well. we have a hoe with the thumb and we have a loader with the grapple. if it was in your buget those two machines would make quick work of your job. But for wanting to make ponds and teraces i would think a dozer would be better allthough iv seen some pretty fancy work with a hoe and i imagine it could be used to make terraces but the dozer would be easier.

 

[ak diesel driver]

I've got alot more time on an excavator than a dozer so I would think for me it would be easier to dig the ponds and terraces with the ex. Someone with alot of dozer time would probably feel diff.

 

[ak diesel driver]

How about this http://anchorage.craigslist.org/bfs/2064445800.html

 

[bison]

I've got alot more time on an excavator than a dozer so I would think for me it would be easier to dig the ponds and terraces with the ex. Someone with alot of dozer time would probably feel diff.

My dad would do that with just a shovel and wheelbarrow
But i guess no one has the appetite for that kind of physical exercise today :hihi:

 

[btfarm]

What we've done for many years to clear a field is cut the trees, use some for firewood but pile all the rest on the stump and burn the whole mess about 6 mo later. But that's for a handful of trees, not a whole field that's overgrown.

 

[dms4x4]

I had two places aerial sprayed with some chemicals around '97 or '98.. I think they used a mixture of Tordon, Remedy, and 24D. One 80 acre place got about 90%, the other 70 acres, probably about 70%. Don't know what the difference was, it was on the same day. In any case, over the years the trees on the 80 died off, and then a year ago I burned it. It hadn't had any cattle in it for 3 years or so, and the fire was good and hot and burned a good bit of what was left off at the base. The root system had rotted enough that I was able to push them over and pull out what was left with my skid loader and grapple. That place is looking pretty nice.

The other place with less favorable results was burned 4-5 years ago, and burned some of the dead stuff off, as well as a good part of the old rotten fence. At any rate, some of the dead ones seem to have started coming back to life in the last few years, and of course, the big cedars weren't effected by the chemicals and have grown that much bigger. However, the fire must have burned up the cedar seeds, as there is very few new small trees started on either place.

There's a guy by Wamego, Ks, about 60 miles from home, that runs a place called Reed Sales. They sell used construction equipment, including a couple big Komatsu excavators in stock with the thumb attachment. I called them up this morning to see what it would cost to rent one for the week......... $2,000, plus delivery in and out, plus fuel. I figured it would be about $4,000 +/- by the time I was done with it, but I'd probably have most of the trees on the ground and maybe a few extra odds and ends by the end of the week. He told me it would weight about 70,000 punds, so it would most likely just pull them out by the roots. I could drag around and pile up the carcasses with my skid loader and grapple. I'd have never thought of using an excavator, but it seems like that might be the ticket for this task. Still need (want) the dozer for ponds, terraces, and playing with a big new toy. I also called a guy close to home with a dozer to see what he would charge to knock all the cedars down, so we'll see where that goes.

The other farm in question has about 50-60 acres, nearly all grown up with big osage orange trees. I've wondered if maybe it should just be abandoned, or sold to someone looking for a hunting location, then buy something with a little less maintenance requirements. I have three or four old building sites that need to be cleaned up, too, so the need for equipment goes on. The fact of the matter is that I'm literally about 35-40 years late getting started on this.

 

[D2 Cat]

Sounds like you just want some equipment to play with. You mentioned being concerned about buying something and then having trouble with it. When spending the funds you're mentioning you better have someone with you who can verify the wear on all the mechanical parts. And yes, if it's mechanical it will break, just hopefully much latter down the line.

Why not just hire it all done? Get a bid so you know what it will be before you start. Let that person take his equipment, time, fuel, permits/cost to move, etc. You'll come out ahead,especially if you rent a machine you're not familiar with. The learning curve cost money. Your efficiency is way down.

Something I'd consider is why dig all the osage orange out of the ground? Or any of the trees, for that matter. I've had fields cleaned with a hydraulic circular saw on a skid-steer. Cuts the tree off a couple of inches in the dirt and sprayed to terminate growth of sprouts. They then have a rake attachment to fit on their machine and cat stack the limbs fast. Maybe this is what you're doing with you machine?

The results are the ground is not disturbed. Easy to clean up. Don't need a root rake. Just pile and burn. I've done this to fields and used a haybine to cut the grass the next year. Broke out 6 sections in 15 acres!! I did some touch up work on some of the rocks exposed at the base of some trees and by the third year I didn't break any sections.

When you need a pond, do the same thing. Get a price before you start. You know what you expect and so does the operator. Then you go do what earns you the money to pay him---and you'll come out ahead if you do your due diligence. (Especially in this economy.)

If you just want to own the equipment to have and play with and maybe get done what you visualize be absolutely sure to have a seasoned mechanic represent you. Don't take the advise of the sales person as representing your interest.

 

[dms4x4]

Sounds like you just want some equipment to play with.............. .

Thanks for your comments. I agree emphatically with everything you're saying. The money I have to work with is only going to buy equipment near its end, and yes, I'd like to have some toys to play with. I own a 60XT skid loader, a hydraulic powered saw (turbo saw), and pretty nice heavy duty grapple. Everything was new, or nearly so when I started, and what I thought was pretty good stuff, and yet its all I can do to keep it running. Skid loader - replaced aux pump, rebuilt wheel drive motor, then replaced same, replaced linkage cable twice; saw - replaced hoses twice, purchased two new blades, welded numerous teeth on blades. Grapple - factory welds have failed twice in numerous places and bent the hell out of it; $750 in repair and welding costs, replaced hoses three times. I'm not a good welder, so I take that and have it done. I consider myself a fair "shade tree" mechanic and have done the other work myself. I use it hard, but that seems to be the nature of the work; you have to run the machine nearly wide open, and the very act of cutting, grappling and piling is destructive. On both machine and operator, I might add. The stuff just seems to fall apart. When I calculated my costs at the end of last year and divided by the number of hours worked, I honestly thought I would have been ahead to have hired someone else, so I make your points for you. But most of us here are do it yourselfers, and get a lot of satisfaction having done so, be it on our farms, equipment, trucks, motor bikes, etc., and we always try to convince ourselves we can do it cheaper than hiring someone. So there I am........Go figure. I seem to be losing on the saw and skid loader route. The excavator / dozer is going to leave the place looking like a moonscape with craters that's going to be another problem getting smoothed up enough to drive through.

I would definitely have someone look over something prior to buying it. The Caterpillar dealer suggested that I have a rep go out and inspect a machine prior to purchasing. I don't know what the charge for that service is. On the other hand, I've spent a good deal of time looking at pictures of undercarriages, and you can tell by looking if the rails, pads, pins, and sprocket looks good, or is plain worn out. Rollers are another story. I think they have to be measured. Also, pictures reveal leaky hydraulic cylinders and hoses, bent up sheet metal, etc. On the caterpillar used website they have a check list form that the factory people use when inspecting. This includes visual things like color of anti-freeze, appearance of water in the dipstick, instrument condition and operation, and a whole host of other things. But I have not a clue how one would detect problems with a torque converter, transmission, final drive etc. I've never operated a dozer or excavator, so wouldn't know if something didn't act or feel quite right when running either. Lots of things to consider, and like with women, the pursuit is most of the fun.