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Schematics to Debug a Cold Ride?

JayTheCPA

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Annapolis, MD
The Burb’s heating system recently downgraded from a heater to a warmer and am looking for a good set of schematics to figure out where potential choke points may lie; I tried to fish-around on GMPartsGiant, but not really getting a good lay-out of the heating system. Had the mechanic work on the lack of heating, but still far from right; recent repairs:
> replaced thermostats (dual system, and likely with 180*'s as the OBDII gauge shows 183 fairly consistently and the dash tends to hover just over 180).
> replaced the dash heat exchanger (asked to replace the distribution box as well as it is getting wonky (still routes the air properly, but it needs the fan to help the flappers switch positions); however this did not happen).
> recently (about 700 miles ago) had one of the plastic ‘T’ connectors replaced, but the heat seemed to work normally immediately after that repair. Not sure this is a factor, but will toss it out: I had to add 1 gallon of Peak generic coolant (50/50 mix) just prior to the ‘T’ connector repair to get me to my destination and have not purged the system.

Reasons I am thinking there is a choke point somewhere other than the dash exchanger are:
> both the front and rear systems only get to the same mildly warm-air level at the vents.
> (As noted above) The engine coolant is running 180 – 185, but am getting only a fraction of that in the cab (am guessing in the mid 80’s) which after 30 minutes the cab is still very cool.
> air temperature at the vents does not get even slightly warm until *long* after the engine comes up to temp.

One interesting observation is that since replacement of the thermostats, the dash temperature gauge rises faster than the OBDII during warm-up, but both track together when the engine reaches operating temp (Example: this morning outside was ~30F, when the dash gauge started to come off of 160, the OBDII indicated 104F); prior to the replacement, both gauges were in synch all the time.

Just for grins, I topped-up (not off) the coolant reservoir last night, but no change in results this morning.

Will appreciate any troubleshooting tips, links, pics, and / or diagrams to help keep down the costs of chasing this ghost.
 
I'd start by flushing the entire system and let it sit overmite with vinegar in it. I'd also go to 190* stats
 
190’s were my preference, but the shop jumped the gun and did not ask.

Had hoped to avoid a flush now as I am planning on replacing the pump next year and conversion to Evans. In thinking a bit more, a flush sounds like a good idea as it is the last original fluid (except the PS) from when I bought the Burb and all of the others were gnasty.
 
This was my thread regarding a similar problem. http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/showthread.php?18064-Suburban-Rear-Heat-Not-Working&highlight=HEAT My solution may not be your solution. That being said, there was a TON of helpful and knowledgeable advice given and you might want to read through it to see if anything "clicks" with you.

That being said, a couple of things that come to mind regarding your situation...

-- What type of coolant are you using and did you mix different types of coolant when you added that gallon of Peak?

-- From what I remember, the only real "choke" point (other than heat exchangers) would be the quick disconnect fitting in the t-stat housing. By the way, this was my solution as there was stuff caught up in that QD fitting. What lead me to this was re-routing the heater lines -- instead of going to the cores, I ran them into a clear container. This way I was able to visually see how much coolant was going through (I had flushed the two cores a number of times and was sure they were clear). Turned out it was just a little more than a trickle.

-- Although it's unlikely that both went at the same time, how sure are you that the mixer (flappers) valves are moving properly and fully? The rear isn't too hard to verify - you just have to tear that aft, starboard corner apart ('bout 20-30 minutes to disassemble). For the front, if you remove the glovebox, you can at least watch the motor move as you turn the hot/cold dial.

-- A good flushing is always a good start, though.
 
T-Stats alone make a world of difference. I ran summer and winter stats in cold country. How much throttle and speed make a difference as light throttle will not heat the heaters up as much as heavy throttle - IMO your issue is bigger than that.
 
Did they put ACDelco or Robert Shaw?

Honestly do not know and the shop did not have the source invoice easily at hand when I picked up the Burb and asked (good folks, but they are small shop with high volume).

This was my thread regarding a similar problem.

Actually, some of does hit in the ball park and, while a long read, it gives me good descriptions to overcome lack of heating-system only schematics. Too bad that CompNine had to slim down its available content.

T-Stats alone make a world of difference. . . . IMO your issue is bigger than that.

Agree, am thinking that the T-Stats are not the issue as, even though I am a light foot (unless necessary), 30+ minutes in only mildly cold weather and still a very cool cab is just not right when the engine is up to temp within 5 - 7 minutes. Also, the T-Stats were replaced in the theory that they would cure the cold cab.

When I got home this evening, felt exchanger hoses and supply side was warmer than return side, so probably blockage somewhere with a remote chance of a weak pump.

Sense that ak diesel driver is on the right track and in reading through DennisG01's thread, am thinking the next steps are to flush the system, reverse flush / blow-out the exchangers, refill with solvent (vinegar, etc), let sit overnight, purge / reverse blow-out, and fill with Dex. If this does not cure the coolant flow, will expand the search. If this does cure the coolant flow, am done for now and will replace the T-stats when I overhaul the coolant system.
 
I bet you if the shop put the t-stat, it is not going to be ACDelco.

They are a little bit more expensive than the regular c****y Stant and never work in this truck.

The next thing is there is also a chance they put it reverse? That is always a suspicion.
Not saying that they are bad shop just people make mistakes.

I would go back to the shop and ask them to make sure that their work is not causing this problem.
 
Mine is also mediocre, I find I can produce better but not great heat on recirc than on fresh air, leading me to believe my problem is more with blend doors. Still need to back flush and troubleshoot properly.
 
Got a note from the shop that the new T-Stats were 160's; definitely colder than I would have picked. Getting a set of 190's on order and the shop knows the Burban is coming back to at least do a coolant flush and swap out the thermostats.

In not having dug into how the dual T-stat water pump routes fluid, what is the thought that the 160 thermostats are feeding into the underwhelming cab heat?
 
Circling back to close the loop on this one.

In the end, it was a mixture of things:
> exchanger was blocked.
> exchanger wanted to slip out of it's mount so that the blend doors could not route air past it.

Current configuration is dual 195* T-stats and Evans coolant in a new motor where the cab is toasty warm even though the ECT does not want to get much above 175F.
 
When you say heat exchanger are you talking heater core? You said you replaced it so how did it get plugged? 160 stats are brutal in winter, no wonder you have no heat. Even putting a 180 stat in my turbo Caravan, the heat output is sad, swapping back to the 195 brings my heat back.
 
Yes, sorry. Heater core was initially diagnosed as plugged. Do not know the source, but suspect that the previous motor had something to do with it (coolant got into the oil).

After the core and T-stats were changed (dual 190F), the heat was initially Ok, but then went cold again.

When the motor was replaced, we flushed, and back-flushed the exchanger lines in part as 'just-cause' due to the oil / coolant contamination, but mostly due to the conversion to Evans.

After the P-400 was dropped in (with 195F T-stats) the cab was still cold and the mechanic was tired of freezing during test drives, so he opened the exchanger box and found that the core slipped its mount and did not let the blend doors route air through it. All fixed now :D
 
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