Recon 6.5 optimizer long motor, problems...

[seb]

Hi All,
Looking for advice, as I am not sure what is normal for a newly installed 6.5L optimiser.

I had an older 6.5 in my 100s Landcruiser but it overheated and cracked both heads and #8 piston. So I installed a 2010 6.5 optimiser recond long motor, non turbo, including fuel pump, injectors, a custom radiator and turbo gearbox at a cost of AU$23000, 5 months ago and has only done 15K.

Problems:
- Ever since I picked it up it up it has been really smokey (black when accelerating, then puff of white smoke when released) worse obviously when towing. to the point where it is embarrassing to put my foot down.

- It has burned 7L of oil in the last 5000km.

- My fuel ecconomy is 19-20L/100km compared to 13-14 that I was getting with the old worn out motor. The power doesn't seem as good either.

Solutions Tried:

- I have since replaced the electric pick-up fuel pump
-played with the timing on the main fuel pump

but neither has made much difference. The installer (who has been operating for 30 years) is telling me that these problems are all because it is a 'tight motor' and it needs to do 30-40k before it will improve. I think that the numbers above are a bit excessive for a 'tight' motor so that is why I am asking around.

Any advice from anyone, should it be burning that much oil?
Does ecconomy improve by that much over time?

Appreciate any help!

 

[ak diesel driver]

I'd be wondering if it had the right precups in it as well as if the pump is turned up to much. How much blowby does it have.

 

[Big T]

A "tight motor" shouldn't be consuming much oil.

 

[great white]

Hi All,
Looking for advice, as I am not sure what is normal for a newly installed 6.5L optimiser.

I had an older 6.5 in my 100s Landcruiser but it overheated and cracked both heads and #8 piston. So I installed a 2010 6.5 optimiser recond long motor, non turbo, including fuel pump, injectors, a custom radiator and turbo gearbox at a cost of AU$23000, 5 months ago and has only done 15K.

Problems:
- Ever since I picked it up it up it has been really smokey (black when accelerating, then puff of white smoke when released) worse obviously when towing. to the point where it is embarrassing to put my foot down.

- It has burned 7L of oil in the last 5000km.

- My fuel ecconomy is 19-20L/100km compared to 13-14 that I was getting with the old worn out motor. The power doesn't seem as good either.

Solutions Tried:

- I have since replaced the electric pick-up fuel pump
-played with the timing on the main fuel pump

but neither has made much difference. The installer (who has been operating for 30 years) is telling me that these problems are all because it is a 'tight motor' and it needs to do 30-40k before it will improve. I think that the numbers above are a bit excessive for a 'tight' motor so that is why I am asking around.

Any advice from anyone, should it be burning that much oil?
Does ecconomy improve by that much over time?

Appreciate any help!

I call Bs.

My brand new off the pallet optimizer 6500 didn't burn even half a liter in its first 500 miles, even with break in oil and I broke it in towing a heavy trailer. I've never had to add between changes, never down more than 1\2 liter at worst. 40000km on it now and it still doesn't burn even half a liter between 6000km oil changes (synthetic). Mine is turbocharged and I tow heavy with it (17-18000 lbs cgvw).

Rolling black smoke means too much fuel or not enough air. Try turning the pump down if you have a db2 and see how it behaves. Db4 requires recalibration of the pcm.

If it really is an optimizer 6500 (ie: not a 6.2) its likely the prechambers are the turbo ones. These are larger in the opening and can lead to lower mixing velocities inside the chamber. This can also lead to smokey behavior. Your poot mileage would lead me to believe you have the wrong chambers installed.

Have a loom at your injectors. If they have an orange plastic ring on them they are turbo injectors and not NA.

My mileage picker up 1-2 mpg when the engine "loosened up", but what you're being told is a fairy tale. It won't pick up that much mpg and if it was that "tight" you wouldn't be burning that much oil. Heck, you shouldn't be burning that much oil anyways....

But your oil consumption is off the charts. I'd sort that out first. Your rebuilder sounds full of bs IMHO.... Please tell me this wasn't Brunswick diesel.

 

[WarWagon]

1 L is close to 1 quart. 5000 km is 3106 miles. So 7 quarts in 3106 miles. This is a quart every 443 miles.

Towing hard 100% of the time with a turbo 6.5 getting 7.5 MPG foot to the floor most of the time I would go through a quart every 500 miles. This was on several 6.5's and 6.2's. I assume you aren't running this hard.

I would look at ECT, how hot is the engine running? What is the CDR setup looking like? Air filter? Exhaust kinks or collapsed pipes?

Was the engine that failed also NA? Same IP?

In any case this is NOT normal for the amount of smoke and oil consumption. They need to fix it or face breach of warranty action as your country allows. A second opinion at another good diesel shop will help.

 

[Will L.]

I would run wet and dry compression tests. Also leak down test. Something is way off there.

 

[Burning oil]

Seb welcome :welcome3:

You just got a $1000 worth of good advise, let us know how it go's.

 

[seb]

Thanks for all the feedback guys!
AK diesel: I don't see any blow by, if anything there is a slight vacuum which i think is normal right?

Great White: It is a 6500 as was the old one which was also NA, I did drop in at another diesel shop but they said that they would have to take the pump off to re-calibrate it and that was going to cost about $800 so I haven't done that yet. Sounds like I need to ask the guys what pre-chambers are in there (i will have a look at the injectors) when they put it in he did say it was a 'turbo ready' motor so maybe thats it. and yes that is the installer.

WarWagon: I have only done probably 1000km of towing so not much, I'm not sure what ECT these motors have but I don't believe they are common rail. I don't know the exact running temp but with the new custom radiator it always sits just under the half-way mark on the standard gauge. The air filter was changed and all the pipes look fine.

Anyway this gives me a bit more confidence to chase them up, there is 6 months left on the warranty so I want to get it sorted asap I will Let you all know how it progresses.

thanks again!

 

[WarWagon]

210 degrees F is the upper limit for these engines without cracking. My thought is that it may be running hot causing the extra oil consumption. Otherwise it may have ring issues like all lined up in a cylinder, installed upside down, etc. The other oil consumption source would be valve guides. I would carefully look at the CDR system and make sure the gold 'tuna can' is present. High crankcase vacuum can suck the oil out.

The Injection Pump isn't common rail.... It's old school rotary distributor plunger type. It has the fuel calibration in it via a screw. Here it says how to turn it up: same procedure, but, turn the fuel screw the other way to turn it down. 1/4 turn out should do the trick. You don't need an $800 calibration.
http://www.flashoffroad.com/Diesel/injectionpump/mechanicalpump.htm

You may need the IP timed to the engine. Too much advance can smoke. So can a pump that has a bad advance piston in it. This is where the $800 calibration may be a good call. But you can get a good rebuilt 6.2 pump for $650... so why bother? Timing to the engine is important. It would clatter like crazy with too much advance. Retarded will be quiet and can smoke. A locked up advance piston is all kinds of trouble.

The above said this is why I ask if you kept your original IP or if it was swapped out with the engine. If it's the original then it isn't the source of black smoke - except for timing. A turbo IP will smoke on a NA engine till the fuel is turned down.

Looks like you may have 1 or 2 issues. 1. Oil consumption and 2. IP issues with overfueling/timing. Low compression could make it all 1 issue. So could timing.

 

[Will L.]

The injectors being for turbo, or the ip having problems or bad timing can all cause the smoking, but if he is having to add engine oil and it is not leaking on the ground it wouldn't be the fuel, right? Or do you guys think to much fuel and oil?

The rings or valve seals is what I was thinking and why I say dry/wet comp test and cylinder leak down test.
Definately check cdr like WW said- good call there.