Randomly spins over too slow to start.

[WarWagon]

This past week the 95 has been spinning over too slow to start. Wait a few min and it will fire up.

I had it start fine, drove 5 miles to a store, start fine at the store, drove home and then tried to restart it in the driveway. So the third time it spun over too slow to start. 30 min later it started just fine.

I just hauled the batteries down for warranty exchange as one was leaking on the positive post. They tested good but had low reserve life. 2.5 years in AZ is above average life. Not attempted to start yet.

I have had a low volt gauge and 12.x while running as seen by the computer. Voltage at the batteries is 14v. I am cleaning the cables and reworking the one that had some corrosion from the leak. Where is the main electrical bus on the 1995? Is it the fuse box under the hood driver's side or is there another one? Looks like this has a bad connection unrelated to the starting speed.

My concern is that a connection would stay bad. Thus, I suspect the starter dropping a brush. Not sure when the starter, if ever, was replaced or rebuilt.

What say Ye? Time to drop the starter while I am at it?

 

[schiker]

Could it be the glow relay is sticking and not opening back up making the starter share amps (maybe why its random)???

How random is the slow starting? You could rig up a long test lead from a glow plug to see if they still have voltage while starting.

 

[bk95td]

Get new 2-0 battery cables[like the ones raceday mechanic makes]. You won't believe how fast they turn over with big cables.If it does end up being the starter, at least you will have good cables. A while back, Handcannon replaced his and did a thread with a autopsy on the old cables. They were green with corrosion the whole length inside the plastic insulation.
A few years back, I had the sme problem as you with my 91 6.2. I replaced the batteries and starter. Neither made any difference. Then I had custom 2-0 battery cables made. Then it turned over like it had 6 batteries.

 

[imadtchmn]

I also had the same issue going on from the sounds of it. I cleaned the grounds at the engine. The two battery grounds on the right and left side and also the rear ground at the pass rear. That took care of my issue.

 

[buddy]

Battery/Starter cables is usually the culprit here. What typically happens is they are corroded or have a bad connection and they get hot and cannot pass enough current through them, which ends up making them even hotter attempting to push the current through them, and the heat makes their resistance increase and the voltage at the starter is too low.

 

[jhornsby3]

I just had this very same thing. Cleaned everything and still the same. Replaced the batteries and still the same thing. Ended up having to replace the starter as it just got so bad. It would start slow in the morning. Let it sit for about 6 hours and it would start. But try to start it while the heat was still in the starter and it wouldn't run fast enough to fire. While I was at it I just went ahead and replaced the charging system, going to the CS-144 alt. I did some looking at small shops and found a shinny, new starter for a Bengie that was marked $265.

John

 

[3500GMC]

The randomness I would think 'connections' going bad. The solenoid will do this too, the high amp contacts wear out. I ebay'd a solenoid for an issue similar to this. Mine would just click 3-4 times with the key until making contact.

 

[schiker]

What would be a good way to test without parts replacement. Amp draw to starter or resistance check????

 

[bk95td]

Voltage drop to starter under load.

 

[WarWagon]

Starter shop said that the solenoid contacts would be common. Also agreed that a brush worn out and sticking/loosing contact could also do this. Looking at the cables, well this is a good place for me to start esp. after a leaking battery. A battery leaking from the positive post into the wire...

And No! I do not recommend the Wal Mart batteries as it took 2 hours and lots of 'maneuvering' to convince them to replace both batteries - one weak and one leaking. Their charger was in use so the tester said charge it, but they couldn't charge em because the charger was in use... I get better no questions asked warranty from the parts stores I spend alot at.

 

[robzombie4551]

And No! I do not recommend the Wal Mart batteries as it took 2 hours and lots of 'maneuvering' to convince them to replace both batteries - one weak and one leaking. Their charger was in use so the tester said charge it, but they couldn't charge em because the charger was in use... I get better no questions asked warranty from the parts stores I spend alot at.

Sorry you had a bad experiance, so I'll share mine.

I had slow turning on initial startup in the morning while leaving for the beach and thenext morning at the beach needed a jump to get it started.

WELLLLLL, I went to wally world to have them tested, mind you I had no paper work they didn't look it up in any computer. They just tested them and one was bad the other one was weak.

WELLLLL they said normally they can only replace if the tested batt fails, SOOOOOOOOOO they tested the same batt twice and gave me two new ones because the tech said he understood that when I said one new one would be taken out by the border line one and gave me two batts for the paltry price of 4 dollars [battery disposal fee or some crap].

Not the best batts but no hassle and that was 20 min. before closing time, you know they were looking for the door and miller TIME but instead gave me more of their TIME.

Just had to share, that most customer service depends on the employee and the type of day they have.

 

[schiker]

Voltage drop to starter under load.

How would you test voltage drop and determine bad cable / connection corrosion?

So that would be measured from positive battery post (red dmm lead) to starter solenoid lug (black lead)? Anything over what 1 volt? would be questionable during starting???
I guess you could do terminal side of solenoid then switched side to see if solenoid contacts were culprit.

 

[WarWagon]

Good way to tell is spin the engine without waiting for glows to warm up and then turn it off after max of 30 seconds. Check the starter to battery cable for being HOT.

In my case I have both a bad starter that spins slow at first and cables that get hot.

 

[bk95td]

How would you test voltage drop and determine bad cable / connection corrosion?

So that would be measured from positive battery post (red dmm lead) to starter solenoid lug (black lead)? Anything over what 1 volt? would be questionable during starting???
I guess you could do terminal side of solenoid then switched side to see if solenoid contacts were culprit.

Check voltage at the battery while cranking. Then check the voltage at the solenoid while cranking.1 volt drop would be alot. The cable is less than 2 feet. I would think 1/4 -1/2 volt drop would be acceptable. The starter solenoid s don't usually engage below 10.5 volts.
The factory battery cables were minimum size when new under perfect condition. 2-0 is overkill but has a good margin and are way better materials than the bean counters used. Night and day difference in cranking speed.

 

[Acesneights1]

Just replaced the starter in my Burb. I pulled the old one apart to salvage the solenoid(60$) and the black soot form the brushes came out in piles....Was doing exactly what you describe. I had to turn it in for a core and I had a freid sol from another starter that I put on it and kept the good sol for a spare.

 

[WarWagon]

Did a tear down of the starter and the spare starter I had in the garage. The slow spinning starter had 2 shot brushes, uneven wear. It also had a failing drive end ball bearing.

I then tore down the spare starter that worked but sounded a little different than it should. "That stinks" was said as soon as the cover was popped open. I noticed what I thought was a little rust otherwise it looked perfect with a recent rebuild sticker on the side. Good brushes, little wear etc. The smell was weird so I steeped away for a min and then looked at it again. That is when I noticed that it was arcing and burning off an insulator on the brush assembly. See pics. The starter gear drive end bushing was slightly loose. I wasn't going to take a chance that the armature had a short or something else caused the insulator to fail. (I hate changing these starters too much to just throw brushes at it.)

I took them both to a local auto electric shop and they gave me $20.00 for the other starter giving me a in stock rebuilt unit for $90.00.

Problem solved.

http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/showthread.php?27405 Starter rebuild reference.